Mobility & Temporality During Covid-19

A Migratory Times Salon

May 4, 2020 10AM PDT / 1PM EDT / 7PM CEST

Registration Required:
https://bit.ly/migratorytimessalon

You are invited to a Salon on Mobility & Temporality with Migratory Times. Migratory Times is a project of the Institute of (im)Possible Subjects and Center for Arts, Design and Social Research. IiS is a transnational feminist collective producing art and education events and a collectively edited online open access journal of art and writing. Center for Arts, Design and Social Research, Inc., US based non-profit 501(c)3 organization supporting independent arts, design, and research focused on positive social impact, globally.

With Crystal Baik(University of California, Riverside), Anyely Marin and Rebecca Close (Critical Dias, Spain), Jose Cortez (University of Oregon), Latipa (University of California, Riverside), Garcia Romeo (University of Utah), Jackline Kemigisa (Uganda), Isabelle Massu (Institut des Beaux Arts de Besançon, France), Alejandro Perez (Berkeley City College), Jennifer Andrea(FWF Lise Meitner), Daphne Vtg (University of California, San Diego).

Facilitators: Annie Isabel Fukushima & Dalida María Benfield(Migratory Times)

To learn more about Migratory Times, visit: https://migratorytimes.net/

IMG_5615.mov

IMG_5615

Deloria God Is Red Intro Thinking in Time and Space

Welcome to Silhouettes – Spring 2020

Welcome to session #2 of the online space Migratory Times, “Silhouettes.”

Silhouettes are made by amateurs, artists, alike, and even cast as a shadow in the everyday. A silhouette is a shadow, profile, miniature cuttings, shadow portrait, illuminating a relationship between light and dark. Utilized by artists and activists alike, the mobilization of the silhouette in the visual has, as described by Gwendolyn DuBois Shaw, the capability to image race and “otherness.” Some silhouettes are iconic – where the relationship between the light and dark have captured local and global imaginaries. Kara Walker’s paper silhouettes tell a story of the US south as one shaped by violence, both sexual and racial. The Mothers of Plaza de Mayo, an association formed in the 1970s, drew awareness to the disappearances occurring during the Argentinian dictatorship (1976 – 1983). Through shadows, the place with light and dark, outlines, silhouettes speak. As this session illuminates, silhouettes manifest in intentional and unintentional actions by artists, community members, scholars, and producers. The image that is created through the interplay and production of light and dark, speaks to coloniality and oppression. As described by Maria Lugones, “Given the coloniality of power, I think we can also say that having a dark and a light side is characteristic of the co-construction of the coloniality of power and the colonial/modern gender system” (2007). Therefore, Silhouettes is an invitation to scholars, artists, visual producers, the everyday person, to submit works that speak to the coloniality and oppression through the silhouette.

Transcript: Migratory Times Salon with Pedro Pablo Gomez in English

Transcript in English

Dalida Maria Benfield

Thank you very much Jen & José Eduardo

I’m giong to introduce pedro Pablo

I only have the text in Spanish so Jen & José Eduardo, can begin

Ok, Pedro Pablo Gómez Moreno is a PHD in an cultural studies

Latin American

she reads his bio very quickly!! https://udistrital.academia.edu/PedroPabloG%C3%B3mez

10:19 AM

perhaps please post in the google doc

10:19 AM

too many proper names too quickly

He teaches on undergrad level in visual arts and in the master’s in art studies

10:19 AM

he directs research into poesis XXI and cultural studies in m master’s and phd and level cultural studies

10:19 AM

his various books will be listed in the google doc

please see google doc for his bio!

also just to say, annie, i believe you are the only person here at the moment who doesn’t speak spanish! so this interpretation is just for you, your own private experiment, with much affection!!

10:20 AM

we can translate his bio later, so it’s in english in the google doc

10:20 AM

currently he directs artistic studies, a magazine of creative research

10:21 AM

coordinates the doctoral commitment for art studies

10:21 AM

many many thanks, again, Pedro Pablo, for being here with us to discuss your essay.

10:21 AM

It’s the first chapter that wer’e currently looking at, from your book HD, Haceres Decoloniales.

Gracias de nuevo Pedro Pablo por estar con nosotrxs, estamos aquí para hablar de tu texto, y por favor, empeza.

10:22 AM

Pedro Pablo Gomez

Good morning to everyone

10:22 AM

Thanks very much Dalida, for your introduction.

I hope you can hear me ok.

10:22 AM

And that I’m speaking sufficiently slowly for the translation/interpretation.

can you hear me ok?

10:22 AM

Yes, it’s good you’re speaking slowly because the translators need you to speak slowly.

10:22 AM

Very good.

10:22 AM

good.

I’d like to introduce the central idea from the text

10:22 AM

a general idea that’s simple but very profound.

10:23 AM

At the same time, it’s the central idea from my doctoral thesis.

This idea: Modernity and colonialit operae

10:23 AM

sorry

10:23 AM

computer glitch

modernity and coloniality operate via borderification

10:23 AM

building borders

10:23 AM

this is a theoretic and epistemological distciont that’s very important

this is an idea that’s not complete

just the first part of the idea around the awy that coloiality produces borders

10:24 AM

part of a larger and more complete theory

10:24 AM

the second part consists of understanding how, starting in the 16th century

with the “discovery” of america

10:24 AM

until today

10:24 AM

people have resisted the borderification of modernity

10:24 AM

in a way that’s very simple

if modernity constructs borders

10:24 AM

limits, classifications,

10:24 AM

the resistence that we might today cal decolonial

consists in building bridges, seeking different modes of social reclassification

10:25 AM

different ways to order things or order knowledge in the world.

10:25 AM

among those people who work around these processes of thinking in other modes

10:25 AM

thinkingfrom and through borders

this is of course not an idea that’s original to me

i’m not the first person who’s thought and written about border ideas

(he froze not sure who he mentioned)

10:25 AM

artists are a very important element of the folks who are building bridges and opening borders

10:26 AM

toward thinking in a different way

10:26 AM

as our translators from today said, — to work with language to facilitate translations

10:26 AM

bridges can be translations — and translation is very important in our process

10:26 AM

how to build bridges…

so artists are decolonial makers

José Eduardo Sanchezraul who is with us today

José Eduardo Sanchezim looking for the list, thank you fo ryour patience

10:27 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezso these artists are alex dollings (sp)

10:27 AM

José Eduardo Sanchez(sp)

osé Eduardo Sanchezdaniel britanichales (sp)

10:27 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezmaria y robert

10:28 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezisaac carrillo from mexico

osé Eduardo Sanchezvery excited to meet isaac they are a mayan artist

José Eduardo Sanchezmarisol cardenas from ecuador

10:28 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwho works with an afrodescendant women collective

José Eduardo Sancheza colombian artist who makes offerings to nature

10:28 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezas a way to decolonize nature

José Eduardo Sanchezand finally rosa tizoi (sp)

10:29 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezan indigenous colombian artist

10:29 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezshe creates paintings with natural pigments

10:29 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezfrom seeds of different colors

José Eduardo Sanchezthe paint also has smells, she paints with scented paints

10:29 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthey smell great and they fill up the exhibit space

10:29 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezi wouldn want to take too much time but also want to interact with you

10:30 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut the idea of this exposition, it is one more moment

José Eduardo Sanchezof something wee been working on for a while

José Eduardo Sanchezof these decolonial aesthetics

José Eduardo Sancheznot just with artists but with makers

10:30 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezan artist is a maker,

José Eduardo Sanchezbut the idea of making is not restricted to just artists

10:30 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthese makers work to create bridges when coloniality creates borders

10:31 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthabnks for you attention, i could talk longer

10:31 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut id like ot open up the coversation

10:31 AM

Raul

José Eduardo Sanchezcan you hear me pedro?

10:31 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezyes, i have a small comment

10:31 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbased on geneologies and our decolonial thinking

José Eduardo Sanchezthe border thinking did not start with walter mignolo

10:31 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezit starts in the 60s with gloria anzaldua

10:32 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwith the chicano feminists

10:32 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezitś important for this to be part of the history

José Eduardo Sanchezone of the issues we see is in the translation of these texts

José Eduardo Sanchezi know your first encounter was with mignolo in the andean university

José Eduardo Sanchez i would like to send you the link to the anzaldua book

José Eduardo Sanchezit is called the border line

10:33 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezi want to include that

José Eduardo Sanchezas latinx living in the us

José Eduardo Sanchezwe have always focused on building bridges

José Eduardo Sanchezand i don want your story to be misinterpreted

10:33 AM

Pedro

José Eduardo Sancheziḿ in agreement with your opinion

José Eduardo Sanchez i would also like to introduce the idea of the exhibit

10:33 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezit will be in bogota in the fall

10:33 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezabout migratory times

José Eduardo Sanchezin colombia, the migratory process is understood as internal displacement

10:34 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezcolumbia has been in conflicta

José Eduardo Sanchezas a country we are in negotiations with the FARC

José Eduardo Sanchezwe have seen more than 6 million folks displaced due to this

José Eduardo Sanchezthis displacement, mostly to venezuela,

José Eduardo Sanchez is the process that now maks us think of the migratory times

José Eduardo Sanchezin mexico it is different, but for us in colombia

10:35 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwe see it as an internal displacement

José Eduardo Sanchezwhich we interpret as colonization

José Eduardo Sanchezthis implies the expulsion from landsb

10:35 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut also from your humanity

10:35 AM

osé Eduardo Sanchezthese procesess help us think through that

José Eduardo Sanchezat the upcoming exhibit we will have 3 colombian artists and 3 foreign artists

José Eduardo Sanchezseen as borderification and bridging

10:36 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezof dialogue and translation

10:36 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat happend?

10:36 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwe can’t hear you

Annie

José Eduardo Sanchezdalida no te escuchamos

10:36 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezcan you hear me now?

Raul

José Eduardo Sanchezother folks have also been muted

10:37 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezyo te puedo escuchar

10:37 AM

Dalida

José Eduardo Sanchezcan you hear me raul?

10:37 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezyes

José Eduardo Sanchezi hav e a comment about what raul mentioned

10:37 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezabout the question or the issue of borderification

10:37 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezhow can we compare the situations between the situation of chicanas like anzaldua

10:37 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezand the situation that pedro pablo is exposign

10:38 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezabout what is happening in colombia

10:38 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat is the difference between displacement and borderification?

José Eduardo Sanchezi don’t know if you

10:38 AM

Raul

José Eduardo Sanchezwas it for me?

José Eduardo Sanchezfor anyone who wants to answer

10:38 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezhere, i think it’s important as i previously said

10:38 AM

José Eduardo Sancheza product of colonization (?)

José Eduardo Sancheztheres a gap between latinx, including chicanx, puertoricans, etc…

José Eduardo Sanchezin the us, as latinx in the us we are seen as part of the machine

José Eduardo Sanchezthe issue of translation is very itneresting

10:39 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezin latin american judith butler is seen as a great feminist

10:39 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezhowever gloria anzaldua or audre lorde or angela davisa

10:40 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezare not well known in Latin america

10:40 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat i’m getting at is that we need to learn our histories

José Eduardo Sancheznot just our histories, but how can i enter into alliance with these other storiesw

10:40 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhich are related

José Eduardo Sanchezand chicanx always say that

10:40 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthe border crossed them they didnt cross

osé Eduardo Sanchezdue to their understanding and analisis of ocupation

10:41 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezand they understand the colonization of indigenous folks from aztlan to the nahuatl territory

10:41 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhen PP talks about the internal displacement

10:41 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwwe can make a comparison with chicanx in the us

10:41 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut not with all latin americans

José Eduardo Sanchezfor example puerto ricans have been displaced due to colonization to indigenous occupied us lands

José Eduardo Sanchezso as anzaldua calls us, we need to build bridges

10:42 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezall of the work i’ve done since the 80s

José Eduardo Sanchezhas focused on immigrationb

José Eduardo Sanchezbecause i was exiled by a nationalist government

José Eduardo Sanchezdue to the chicanx analysis

José Eduardo Sanchezi was able to build this political analysis

José Eduardo Sanchezas folks who are bilingual, we know the diffeent texts in different languages

10:43 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut i find it problematic

José Eduardo Sanchezin the colonial option, to not include english text b

José Eduardo Sanchezby latinx

10:43 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezso we end up making statements

10:43 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezmarta trava sayst

José Eduardo Sanchezthat latinx who live in the us are imperialits

Jen HoferI’m not saying that you need to stop Raul, just talk a bit slower

10:44 AM

Jen Hoferno, we’re fine!!!

Jen Hofercan we stop for a sec

Jen Hoferwe’re a very small group and we might be able to introduce ourselves

10:44 AM

Jen Hoferbecause, yeah

José Eduardo Sanchezdalida you don’t need to interpret yourself!

10:44 AM

Jen HoferMe gustaría para un momento porque somos un grupo pequeño para que todxs hagamos una breve introducción

Jen Hofertenemos a annie fukushima, and also raúl

10:45 AM

Jen Hofersi lxs dos pueden hablar de su trabajo

Jen Hoferquiénes son, dónde están, un poco acerca de su trabajo, sería fantástico

Jen Hoferbreves comentarios solamente

10:45 AM

Jen HoferR: I see others as well, there are seven people here

10:45 AM

Jen HoferDalida: Yes, I think that Jen & José Eduardo are also showing up here

10:45 AM

Jen Hofer¿Quién va?

10:45 AM

Jen HoferAnnie: Voy a hablar ne inglés porque mi español es terrible

10:46 AM

Jen Hofersoy miembra del instituto de sujetxs (im)posibles

10:46 AM

Jen Hofertengo más de una década colaborando con dalida María

10:46 AM

Jen Hoferhemos trabajdo varios proyectos desde nuestro tiempo en berkeley

10:46 AM

Jen Hofersoy profesora en la escuela de transformación social y política en univ de utah

10:46 AM

Jen Hofermi investigación se trata de migración y violencia trasnacional

10:46 AM

Jen Hoferviendo las américas en su relación al pacífico asiático

10:46 AM

Jen Hoferme emociona mucho tener esta conversación

10:47 AM

Jen Hoferhe estado pensando con maría lugones mucho recientemente y me emociona la conversación acerca de la decolonialidad

10:47 AM

Jen Hofermi nombre es rául (says whole name)

10:47 AM

Jen Hofersoy artista interdisciplinario

10:47 AM

Jen Hoferme exilié de cuba cuando tenía 20 años

10:47 AM

Jen Hoferla migración es un elemento clave de mi pensamiento y mi práctica

10:47 AM

Jen Hofertengo MFA del programa en intermedios de univ de iowa

10:47 AM

Jen Hofery un doctorado en estudios decoloniales caribeños y latinoaméricanos

10:48 AM

Jen Hoferde Duke univ

Jen Hoferpude estudiar de cerca con walter mignolo

Jen Hofertengo una colaboración extensa con dalida maría benfield cuando estuvimos mucho más jóvenes

10:48 AM

Jen Hoferfuimos parte del colectivo de video latinxs en el midwest

Jen Hofera finales de los 80 y principios de los 90

10:48 AM

Jen Hoferhemos hecho performances juntxs

10:48 AM

Jen Hofertambién trabajo con PPGM durante casi 7 años hemos sido colegas y amigxs

Jen Hoferestamos trabajando varios proyectos y honro mucho el trabajo que él

10:49 AM

Jen Hofery catherine walsch y adolfo albán han echo en la universidad andina simón bolívar

10:49 AM

Jen Hoferhan sido muy importantes en mi actual investigación como artista

10:49 AM

Jen Hoferthank you very much

Jen Hofer(also mentioned that ana mendieta was at iowa but that slipped away from me)

10:49 AM

Jen Hoferme siento tan raro con el silencio

10:49 AM

Jen Hoferdalida estabas en mute

Jen Hoferdije gracias tantas por las presentaciones rauúl y annie

10:50 AM

Jen Hofernow let’s comeitnue

10:50 AM

Jen HoferJES: you don’t need to self-interpret because we’re interpeting for you in the chatbox

10:50 AM

Jen Hoferraúal

Jen Hoferi can’t see the chat box

Jen Hoferdalida: i see it’s a box that’s continuing and continuing

10:50 AM

Jen HoferJES: Rául you can also go to the google doc

10:50 AM

Jen HoferAnnie, ¿puedes mandar de nuevo el google doc?

10:51 AM

Jen Hoferraúl: can i get approval to get into the google doc?

10:51 AM

Jen Hoferi’m not going to translate this technical part

Jen Hofer¡ahora sí!

10:52 AM

Jen Hoferdalida: more questions? comments?

10:52 AM

Jen Hoferraúl: i have a question

Jen Hoferin relation to not just the text PPGM wrote but also the critical stance around decoloniality in relation to aisthesis

Jen Hoferi’m saying this because for us it’s very — i don’t want to say easy — but we’ve been working on this for years

10:53 AM

Jen Hoferand we’ve come to an understanding of the issues around this whole series of texts and knowledges

10:53 AM

Jen Hoferso i’d like for you to talk with us a bit more about colonality

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferand what you were mentioning (PPGM) as — what’s the name you gave it? — heterarchy?

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferheterarquía (en el texto HD)

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferyes, heterarquía

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferheterarchy

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferthat’s what you called it

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferwhere, for us in language of contemporary latinx

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferthat’s where intersectionality functions

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferwhere the matrix can be visualized, an interconnection among oppressions with the colonial matrix

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferi’d like fo ryou to talk with us a bit more about that

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferand about how that affects our lives, our felt and experiencied lives, and also the connections with aisthesisand creative production

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferwas that for me, PP

10:55 AM

Jen Hofer?

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferyes!

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferok

Jen Hoferin my work as you know, we work also with ramón (missed last name)

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferthe idea of heterarchy

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferramón (Grosfoguel) also works with kontopolous, a contemporary greek philosopher

10:56 AM

Jen Hoferhe works with heterarchies

10:56 AM

Jen Hoferwe normally talk about hierarchies

10:56 AM

Jen Hoferand these are understood as classifications in terms of international divisions of labor

Jen Hoferfundamentally economic divisions

10:56 AM

Jen Hoferheterarchies are classifications that are ordered around other signifiers of colonality an dpower

Jen Hoferthat are not just understood in economic terms, but also terms of race, gender, right? the relationship with the colonial matrix is there

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferin terms of connections with chicanx and afro-descendent and indiegnous thinkings

Jen Hoferso it’s about new classifications

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferif we think about a classification of medicine, for instance,

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferif we’re thinking about allopathic vs homeopathic medicine

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferif we think about a classification of medicine, for instance,

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferif we’re thinking about allopathic vs homeopathic medicine

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferthese are different classifications

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferand we can talk about colonial classifications of health and ways of healing

Jen Hoferand modes of diagnosis

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferthe coloniality of art

Jen Hoferalso has classifications

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferand through these heterarchies there is a colonial narrative

Jen Hoferthere’s a discourse around the history of art and around aesthetics that serves to uphold those classifications

10:58 AM

Jen Hoferin terms of health, or madness (insanity) there are others

Jen Hoferalso in terms of what we might call… not just gender

10:58 AM

Jen Hoferthis is another discourse around this classificaiton

Jen Hoferso with ramón (last name) we identify in his work thirteen heterarchies

Jen Hoferand we can always put ellipses

10:58 AM

Jen Hoferbecause we’ll also find in our analysis that there is a model of classification that’s not necessarily work

10:58 AM

Jen Hoferin econimic terms around colonality

Jen Hoferbut also the unfolding of a colonial matrix where these elements combine

10:59 AM

Jen Hoferracism, gender oppression, class, economic issues,

Jen Hoferto produce heterarchy in a very precise way

10:59 AM

Jen Hoferso our analysis needs to be more complex

Jen Hoferto analyse things in terms of class, along marxist lines, is a simpler way of thinking than to analyse using intersectionality

10:59 AM

Jen Hoferfor thos of us who work from aesthetics

Jen Hoferit’s not just around colonial aesthetics — it’s not just an aesthetic question

Jen Hoferit’s interrelated with other forms of coloniality

Jen Hoferthese forms of heterarchy help us to understand place as well

Jen Hoferwe’re thinking about aeshetic coloniality as not just aesthetic, but also as linked to other forms of coloniality

Jen Hoferthis is the basic idea

Jen Hoferannie: puedo preguntar algo?

11:00 AM

Jen Hoferdalida: yes, please!

11:01 AM

Jen Hoferannie: me da curiosidad porque, saben, estoy empezando a conocer tu trabajo recientemente

11:01 AM

Jen Hoferme gustaría más acerca de la expo en bogotá

11:01 AM

Jen Hofer¿cuáles son los movimientos decolonialies que haces para decolonizar la óptica en términos del lenguaje visual?

Jen Hofer¿cómo se ve eso para ti específicamente?

11:01 AM

Jen Hoferthis is for me, pedro pablo, this quesiton?

11:01 AM

Jen Hofersí, PP!

11:02 AM

Jen Hoferok, gracias

11:02 AM

Jen HoferPPGM

11:02 AM

Jen Hoferraúl — all the questions are for you!!!

11:02 AM

Jen HoferPPGM: thanks very much for your questions

Jen Hoferthese are very important questions

11:02 AM

Jen Hoferthe colonality of the visual

11:02 AM

Jen Hoferin this sense, the sense of the visual

Jen Hoferour perspective, our critical perspective has to do with what we’ve called the colonial scopic regimen

Jen Hoferwhich is very close to certain proposals in visual studies

Jen Hoferaround how coloniality isn’t just coloniality of images

Jen Hoferbut also a coloniality of the gaze

11:03 AM

Jen Hoferof looking

11:03 AM

Jen Hoferso the qusiton of how images are the medium

Jen Hoferbut the issue is the way the gaze is colonized

Jen Hoferwe are colonized in our way of seeing, our way of perceiving

11:03 AM

Jen Hoferso the coloniality of visuality is part of the coloniality of being

11:03 AM

Jen Hoferit’s not the only element, but it’s a very important aspect

Jen Hoferhow the coloniality of the gaze forms part of the coloniality of knowing, of knowledge

Jen Hoferbecause our knowledge is limited not just by conceptual frames and language capcities, but also by visuality as a medium

Jen Hoferso in exhibitions we try to see how artists can help us

Jen Hoferand they themsevles are in the process of decolnizing the gaze

11:04 AM

Jen Hoferdecolonizing the western gaze

11:04 AM

Jen Hoferso i really appreciate your question because it reminds me of another word, another concept iv’e been triyng to work with

11:04 AM

Jen Hoferaesthetic coloniality is a way of trying to

11:04 AM

Jen HoferMISSED A SPOT

en Hoferhow does colonial power restrict the focus, the lens through which we’re able to visualize

11:05 AM

Jen Hofertoward a specific field of visaulity which also occludes other dimensions of the visual

11:05 AM

Jen Hoferwhich are a shadow, the dark side of the visual

11:05 AM

Jen Hoferin which we can also exercise other tasks, other processes

11:05 AM

Jen Hoferso this is why an analysis of the image is so important

Jen Hoferimage theories, theories of visuality, are very important

11:05 AM

Jen Hoferraúl has also worked a lot on this, dalida as well — she can tell us a lot about her research around third cinema

11:05 AM

Jen Hoferthis is what i think right now, anyway.

Jen Hoferit would be even more rich if we could work around this first idea also hearing from all of you, from raúl and dalida

Jen Hoferque una de las principales luchas que enfrentamos como artista decoloniales

11:06 AM

Jen Hoferes desprendernos de la colonialidad de lo visual

11:06 AM

Jen Hoferporque la principal lucha es reclamar el cuerpo como espacio sensorial conectado al cosmos

Jen Hoferentonces mientras percibimos aisthesis

11:07 AM

Jen Hofertiene que ver con una conexión entre todos los sentidos

11:07 AM

Jen Hoferdespués de entender cómo toda la idea de espacio se construye por geografías eurocéntricas

Jen Hoferponiendo al norte como el punto clave, por la cuestión magnética

11:07 AM

Jen Hoferla brújula (compass)

11:07 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezcompass!

Jen Hoferla brújula magnética que usaron lxs navegadorxs

Jen Hoferhemos cambiado el enfoque que usaron nuestrxs ancestrxs africanxs e indígenas para orientar el cuerpo, usando el sol, la luna

11:08 AM

Jen Hofermuchxs de nosotrxs tuvimos que reclamar esa orientación, ese conociemiento, realinearnos con el sol

11:08 AM

Jen Hofercomo fuerza y como guía

Jen Hoferpara llegar a un entendimiento de que necesitamos lo que se lllamaba en la isla tortuga “el vivir cosmos, el vivir con los cosmos”

Jen Hofero sea, vivir con uno cosmos, con una naturaleza muy distintos de una noción de vivir DE la naturaleza, de sacar los recursos naturales

11:09 AM

Jen Hoferporque hemos entendido que para que vivamos y existamos, tenemos que respirar

Jen Hofervital

11:09 AM

Jen Hoferen el momento de respirar, respiramos aire cósmico

Jen Hoferes un sistema corporal que nos da energía

Jen Hofercuando tomamos agua, para nosotrxs es como respirar el cosmos, o tomar el agua del cosmos del cual somos todxs parte

11:09 AM

Jen Hoferen relación a una unidad

Jen Hoferasí entendemos cómo es que en comunidades africanas e indígenas luchamos tanto a favor del medio ambiente

Jen Hoferpara no controlar la naturaleza

Jen Hofery llegamos ese entendimiento a nuestro trabajo

11:10 AM

Jen Hoferasí nos desprendemos de lo visual, de crear objetos en tres dimensions que incorporan todos los sentidos y también la comunidad

Jen Hoferno solamente crear objetos hermosos para la contemplación visual

Jen Hofersino también producir objetos integrales para comunicar también con otras personas

11:11 AM

Jen Hofer¿ok?

Translation

Dalida Maria Benfield

Thank you very much Jen & José Eduardo

10:18 AM

I’m giong to introduce pedro Pablo

10:18 AM

I only have the text in Spanish so Jen & José Eduardo, can begin

10:18 AM

Ok, Pedro Pablo Gómez Moreno is aPHD in an cultural sturies

10:19 AM

Latin American

10:19 AM

she reads his bio very quickly!!

10:19 AM

perhaps please post in the google doc

10:19 AM

too many proper names too quickly

He teaches on undergrad level in visual arts and in the master’s in art studies

10:19 AM

he directs research into poesis XXI and cultural studies in m master’s and phd and level cultural studies

10:19 AM

his various books will be listed in the google doc

please see google doc for his bio!

also just to say, annie, i believe you are the only person here at the moment who doesn’t speak spanish! so this interpretation is just for you, your own private experiment, with much affection!!

10:20 AM

we can translate his bio later, so it’s in english in the google doc

10:20 AM

currently he directs artistic studies, a magazine of creative research

10:21 AM

coordinates the doctoral commitment for art studies

10:21 AM

many many thanks, again, Pedro Pablo, for being here with us to discuss your essay.

10:21 AM

It’s the first chapter that wer’e currently looking at, from your book HD, Haceres Decoloniales.

Gracias de nuevo Pedro Pablo por estar con nosotrxs, estamos aquí para hablar de tu texto, y por favor, empeza.

10:22 AM

Pedro Pablo Gomez

Good morning to everyone

10:22 AM

Thanks very much Dalida, for your introduction.

I hope you can hear me ok.

10:22 AM

And that I’m speaking sufficiently slowly for the translation/interpretation.

can you hear me ok?

10:22 AM

Yes, it’s good you’re speaking slowly because the translators need you to speak slowly.

10:22 AM

Very goo.

10:22 AM

good.

I’d like to introduce the central idea from the text

10:22 AM

a general idea that’s simple but very profound.

10:23 AM

At the same time, it’s the central idea from my doctoral thesis.

This idea: Modernity and colonialit operae

10:23 AM

sorry

10:23 AM

computer glitch

modernity and coloniality operate via borderification

10:23 AM

building borders

10:23 AM

this is a theoretic and epistemological distciont that’s very important

this is an idea that’s not complete

just the first part of the idea around the awy that coloiality produces borders

10:24 AM

part of a larger and more complete theory

10:24 AM

the second part consists of understanding how, starting in the 16th century

with the “discovery” of america

10:24 AM

until today

10:24 AM

people have resisted the borderification of modernity

10:24 AM

in a way that’s very simple

if modernity constructs borders

10:24 AM

limits, classifications,

10:24 AM

the resistence that we might today cal decolonial

consists in building bridges, seeking different modes of social reclassification

10:25 AM

different ways to order things or order knowledge in the world.

10:25 AM

among those people who work around these processes of thinking in other modes

10:25 AM

thinkingfrom and through borders

this is of course not an idea that’s original to me

i’m not the first person who’s thought and written about border ideas

(he froze not sure who he mentioned)

10:25 AM

artists are a very important element of the folks who are building bridges and opening borders

10:26 AM

toward thinking in a different way

10:26 AM

as our translators from today said, — to work with language to facilitate translations

10:26 AM

bridges can be translations — and translation is very important in our process

10:26 AM

how to build bridges…

so artists are decolonial makers

José Eduardo Sanchezraul who is with us today

José Eduardo Sanchezim looking for the list, thank you fo ryour patience

10:27 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezso these artists are alex dollings (sp)

10:27 AM

José Eduardo Sanchez(sp)

osé Eduardo Sanchezdaniel britanichales (sp)

10:27 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezmaria y robert

10:28 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezisaac carrillo from mexico

osé Eduardo Sanchezvery excited to meet isaac they are a mayan artist

José Eduardo Sanchezmarisol cardenas from ecuador

10:28 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwho works with an afrodescendant women collective

José Eduardo Sancheza colombian artist who makes offerings to nature

10:28 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezas a way to decolonize nature

José Eduardo Sanchezand finally rosa tizoi (sp)

10:29 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezan indigenous colombian artist

10:29 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezshe creates paintings with natural pigments

10:29 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezfrom seeds of different colors

José Eduardo Sanchezthe paint also has smells, she paints with scented paints

10:29 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthey smell great and they fill up the exhibit space

10:29 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezi wouldn want to take too much time but also want to interact with you

10:30 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut the idea of this exposition, it is one more moment

José Eduardo Sanchezof something wee been working on for a while

José Eduardo Sanchezof these decolonial aesthetics

José Eduardo Sancheznot just with artists but with makers

10:30 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezan artist is a maker,

José Eduardo Sanchezbut the idea of making is not restricted to just artists

10:30 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthese makers work to create bridges when coloniality creates borders

10:31 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthabnks for you attention, i could talk longer

10:31 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut id like ot open up the coversation

10:31 AM

Raul

José Eduardo Sanchezcan you hear me pedro?

10:31 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezyes, i have a small comment

10:31 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbased on geneologies and our decolonial thinking

José Eduardo Sanchezthe border thinking did not start with walter mignolo

10:31 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezit starts in the 60s with gloria anzaldua

10:32 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwith the chicano feminists

10:32 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezitś important for this to be part of the history

José Eduardo Sanchezone of the issues we see is in the translation of these texts

José Eduardo Sanchezi know your first encounter was with mignolo in the andean university

José Eduardo Sanchez i would like to send you the link to the anzaldua book

José Eduardo Sanchezit is called the border line

10:33 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezi want to include that

José Eduardo Sanchezas latinx living in the us

José Eduardo Sanchezwe have always focused on building bridges

José Eduardo Sanchezand i don want your story to be misinterpreted

10:33 AM

Pedro

José Eduardo Sancheziḿ in agreement with your opinion

José Eduardo Sanchez i would also like to introduce the idea of the exhibit

10:33 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezit will be in bogota in the fall

10:33 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezabout migratory times

José Eduardo Sanchezin colombia, the migratory process is understood as internal displacement

10:34 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezcolumbia has been in conflicta

José Eduardo Sanchezas a country we are in negotiations with the FARC

José Eduardo Sanchezwe have seen more than 6 million folks displaced due to this

José Eduardo Sanchezthis displacement, mostly to venezuela,

José Eduardo Sanchez is the process that now maks us think of the migratory times

José Eduardo Sanchezin mexico it is different, but for us in colombia

10:35 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwe see it as an internal displacement

José Eduardo Sanchezwhich we interpret as colonization

José Eduardo Sanchezthis implies the expulsion from landsb

10:35 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut also from your humanity

10:35 AM

osé Eduardo Sanchezthese procesess help us think through that

José Eduardo Sanchezat the upcoming exhibit we will have 3 colombian artists and 3 foreign artists

José Eduardo Sanchezseen as borderification and bridging

10:36 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezof dialogue and translation

10:36 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat happend?

10:36 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwe can’t hear you

Annie

José Eduardo Sanchezdalida no te escuchamos

10:36 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezcan you hear me now?

Raul

José Eduardo Sanchezother folks have also been muted

10:37 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezyo te puedo escuchar

10:37 AM

Dalida

José Eduardo Sanchezcan you hear me raul?

10:37 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezyes

José Eduardo Sanchezi hav e a comment about what raul mentioned

10:37 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezabout the question or the issue of borderification

10:37 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezhow can we compare the situations between the situation of chicanas like anzaldua

10:37 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezand the situation that pedro pablo is exposign

10:38 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezabout what is happening in colombia

10:38 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat is the difference between displacement and borderification?

José Eduardo Sanchezi don’t know if you

10:38 AM

Raul

José Eduardo Sanchezwas it for me?

José Eduardo Sanchezfor anyone who wants to answer

10:38 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezhere, i think it’s important as i previously said

10:38 AM

José Eduardo Sancheza product of colonization (?)

José Eduardo Sancheztheres a gap between latinx, including chicanx, puertoricans, etc…

José Eduardo Sanchezin the us, as latinx in the us we are seen as part of the machine

José Eduardo Sanchezthe issue of translation is very itneresting

10:39 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezin latin american judith butler is seen as a great feminist

10:39 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezhowever gloria anzaldua or audre lorde or angela davisa

10:40 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezare not well known in Latin america

10:40 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat i’m getting at is that we need to learn our histories

José Eduardo Sancheznot just our histories, but how can i enter into alliance with these other storiesw

10:40 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhich are related

José Eduardo Sanchezand chicanx always say that

10:40 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthe border crossed them they didnt cross

osé Eduardo Sanchezdue to their understanding and analisis of ocupation

10:41 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezand they understand the colonization of indigenous folks from aztlan to the nahuatl territory

10:41 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhen PP talks about the internal displacement

10:41 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwwe can make a comparison with chicanx in the us

10:41 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut not with all latin americans

José Eduardo Sanchezfor example puerto ricans have been displaced due to colonization to indigenous occupied us lands

José Eduardo Sanchezso as anzaldua calls us, we need to build bridges

10:42 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezall of the work i’ve done since the 80s

José Eduardo Sanchezhas focused on immigrationb

José Eduardo Sanchezbecause i was exiled by a nationalist government

José Eduardo Sanchezdue to the chicanx analysis

José Eduardo Sanchezi was able to build this political analysis

José Eduardo Sanchezas folks who are bilingual, we know the diffeent texts in different languages

10:43 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut i find it problematic

José Eduardo Sanchezin the colonial option, to not include english text b

José Eduardo Sanchezby latinx

10:43 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezso we end up making statements

10:43 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezmarta trava sayst

José Eduardo Sanchezthat latinx who live in the us are imperialits

Jen HoferI’m not saying that you need to stop Raul, just talk a bit slower

10:44 AM

Jen Hoferno, we’re fine!!!

Jen Hofercan we stop for a sec

Jen Hoferwe’re a very small group and we might be able to introduce ourselves

10:44 AM

Jen Hoferbecause, yeah

José Eduardo Sanchezdalida you don’t need to interpret yourself!

10:44 AM

Jen HoferMe gustaría para un momento porque somos un grupo pequeño para que todxs hagamos una breve introducción

Jen Hofertenemos a annie fukushima, and also raúl

10:45 AM

Jen Hofersi lxs dos pueden hablar de su trabajo

Jen Hoferquiénes son, dónde están, un poco acerca de su trabajo, sería fantástico

Jen Hoferbreves comentarios solamente

10:45 AM

Jen HoferR: I see others as well, there are seven people here

10:45 AM

Jen HoferDalida: Yes, I think that Jen & José Eduardo are also showing up here

10:45 AM

Jen Hofer¿Quién va?

10:45 AM

Jen HoferAnnie: Voy a hablar ne inglés porque mi español es terrible

10:46 AM

Jen Hofersoy miembra del instituto de sujetxs (im)posibles

10:46 AM

Jen Hofertengo más de una década colaborando con dalida María

10:46 AM

Jen Hoferhemos trabajdo varios proyectos desde nuestro tiempo en berkeley

10:46 AM

Jen Hofersoy profesora en la escuela de transformación social y política en univ de utah

10:46 AM

Jen Hofermi investigación se trata de migración y violencia trasnacional

10:46 AM

Jen Hoferviendo las américas en su relación al pacífico asiático

10:46 AM

Jen Hoferme emociona mucho tener esta conversación

10:47 AM

Jen Hoferhe estado pensando con maría lugones mucho recientemente y me emociona la conversación acerca de la decolonialidad

10:47 AM

Jen Hofermi nombre es rául (says whole name)

10:47 AM

Jen Hofersoy artista interdisciplinario

10:47 AM

Jen Hoferme exilié de cuba cuando tenía 20 años

10:47 AM

Jen Hoferla migración es un elemento clave de mi pensamiento y mi práctica

10:47 AM

Jen Hofertengo MFA del programa en intermedios de univ de iowa

10:47 AM

Jen Hofery un doctorado en estudios decoloniales caribeños y latinoaméricanos

10:48 AM

Jen Hoferde Duke univ

Jen Hoferpude estudiar de cerca con walter mignolo

Jen Hofertengo una colaboración extensa con dalida maría benfield cuando estuvimos mucho más jóvenes

10:48 AM

Jen Hoferfuimos parte del colectivo de video latinxs en el midwest

Jen Hofera finales de los 80 y principios de los 90

10:48 AM

Jen Hoferhemos hecho performances juntxs

10:48 AM

Jen Hofertambién trabajo con PPGM durante casi 7 años hemos sido colegas y amigxs

Jen Hoferestamos trabajando varios proyectos y honro mucho el trabajo que él

10:49 AM

Jen Hofery catherine walsch y adolfo albán han echo en la universidad andina simón bolívar

10:49 AM

Jen Hoferhan sido muy importantes en mi actual investigación como artista

10:49 AM

Jen Hoferthank you very much

Jen Hofer(also mentioned that ana mendieta was at iowa but that slipped away from me)

10:49 AM

Jen Hoferme siento tan raro con el silencio

10:49 AM

Jen Hoferdalida estabas en mute

Jen Hoferdije gracias tantas por las presentaciones rauúl y annie

10:50 AM

Jen Hofernow let’s comeitnue

10:50 AM

Jen HoferJES: you don’t need to self-interpret because we’re interpeting for you in the chatbox

10:50 AM

Jen Hoferraúal

Jen Hoferi can’t see the chat box

Jen Hoferdalida: i see it’s a box that’s continuing and continuing

10:50 AM

Jen HoferJES: Rául you can also go to the google doc

10:50 AM

Jen HoferAnnie, ¿puedes mandar de nuevo el google doc?

10:51 AM

Jen Hoferraúl: can i get approval to get into the google doc?

10:51 AM

Jen Hoferi’m not going to translate this technical part

Jen Hofer¡ahora sí!

10:52 AM

Jen Hoferdalida: more questions? comments?

10:52 AM

Jen Hoferraúl: i have a question

Jen Hoferin relation to not just the text PPGM wrote but also the critical stance around decoloniality in relation to aisthesis

Jen Hoferi’m saying this because for us it’s very — i don’t want to say easy — but we’ve been working on this for years

10:53 AM

Jen Hoferand we’ve come to an understanding of the issues around this whole series of texts and knowledges

10:53 AM

Jen Hoferso i’d like for you to talk with us a bit more about colonality

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferand what you were mentioning (PPGM) as — what’s the name you gave it? — heterarchy?

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferheterarquía (en el texto HD)

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferyes, heterarquía

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferheterarchy

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferthat’s what you called it

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferwhere, for us in language of contemporary latinx

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferthat’s where intersectionality functions

10:54 AM

Jen Hoferwhere the matrix can be visualized, an interconnection among oppressions with the colonial matrix

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferi’d like fo ryou to talk with us a bit more about that

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferand about how that affects our lives, our felt and experiencied lives, and also the connections with aisthesis and creative production

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferwas that for me, PP

10:55 AM

Jen Hofer?

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferyes!

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferok

Jen Hoferin my work as you know, we work also with ramón (missed last name)

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferthe idea of heterarchy

10:55 AM

Jen Hoferramón (Grosfoguel) also works with kontopolous, a contemporary greek philosopher

10:56 AM

Jen Hoferhe works with heterarchies

10:56 AM

Jen Hoferwe normally talk about hierarchies

10:56 AM

Jen Hoferand these are understood as classifications in terms of international divisions of labor

Jen Hoferfundamentally economic divisions

10:56 AM

Jen Hoferheterarchies are classifications that are ordered around other signifiers of colonality an dpower

Jen Hoferthat are not just understood in economic terms, but also terms of race, gender, right? the relationship with the colonial matrix is there

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferin terms of connections with chicanx and afro-descendent and indiegnous thinkings

Jen Hoferso it’s about new classifications

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferif we think about a classification of medicine, for instance,

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferif we’re thinking about allopathic vs homeopathic medicine

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferif we think about a classification of medicine, for instance,

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferif we’re thinking about allopathic vs homeopathic medicine

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferthese are different classifications

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferand we can talk about colonial classifications of health and ways of healing

Jen Hoferand modes of diagnosis

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferthe coloniality of art

Jen Hoferalso has classifications

10:57 AM

Jen Hoferand through these heterarchies there is a colonial narrative

Jen Hoferthere’s a discourse around the history of art and around aesthetics that serves to uphold those classifications

10:58 AM

Jen Hoferin terms of health, or madness (insanity) there are others

Jen Hoferalso in terms of what we might call… not just gender

10:58 AM

Jen Hoferthis is another discourse around this classificaiton

Jen Hoferso with ramón (last name) we identify in his work thirteen heterarchies

Jen Hoferand we can always put ellipses

10:58 AM

Jen Hoferbecause we’ll also find in our analysis that there is a model of classification that’s not necessarily work

10:58 AM

Jen Hoferin econimic terms around colonality

Jen Hoferbut also the unfolding of a colonial matrix where these elements combine

10:59 AM

Jen Hoferracism, gender oppression, class, economic issues,

Jen Hoferto produce heterarchy in a very precise way

10:59 AM

Jen Hoferso our analysis needs to be more complex

Jen Hoferto analyse things in terms of class, along marxist lines, is a simpler way of thinking than to analyse using intersectionality

10:59 AM

Jen Hoferfor thos of us who work from aesthetics

Jen Hoferit’s not just around colonial aesthetics — it’s not just an aesthetic question

Jen Hoferit’s interrelated with other forms of coloniality

Jen Hoferthese forms of heterarchy help us to understand place as well

Jen Hoferwe’re thinking about aeshetic coloniality as not just aesthetic, but also as linked to other forms of coloniality

Jen Hoferthis is the basic idea

Jen Hoferannie: puedo preguntar algo?

11:00 AM

Jen Hoferdalida: yes, please!

11:01 AM

Jen Hoferannie: me da curiosidad porque, saben, estoy empezando a conocer tu trabajo recientemente

11:01 AM

Jen Hoferme gustaría más acerca de la expo en bogotá

11:01 AM

Jen Hofer¿cuáles son los movimientos decolonialies que haces para decolonizar la óptica en términos del lenguaje visual?

Jen Hofer¿cómo se ve eso para ti específicamente?

11:01 AM

Jen Hoferthis is for me, pedro pablo, this quesiton?

11:01 AM

Jen Hofersí, PP!

11:02 AM

Jen Hoferok, gracias

11:02 AM

Jen HoferPPGM

11:02 AM

Jen Hoferraúl — all the questions are for you!!!

11:02 AM

Jen HoferPPGM: thanks very much for your questions

Jen Hoferthese are very important questions

11:02 AM

Jen Hoferthe colonality of the visual

11:02 AM

Jen Hoferin this sense, the sense of the visual

Jen Hoferour perspective, our critical perspective has to do with what we’ve called the colonial scopic regimen

Jen Hoferwhich is very close to certain proposals in visual studies

Jen Hoferaround how coloniality isn’t just coloniality of images

Jen Hoferbut also a coloniality of the gaze

11:03 AM

Jen Hoferof looking

11:03 AM

Jen Hoferso the qusiton of how images are the medium

Jen Hoferbut the issue is the way the gaze is colonized

Jen Hoferwe are colonized in our way of seeing, our way of perceiving

11:03 AM

Jen Hoferso the coloniality of visuality is part of the coloniality of being

11:03 AM

Jen Hoferit’s not the only element, but it’s a very important aspect

Jen Hoferhow the coloniality of the gaze forms part of the coloniality of knowing, of knowledge

Jen Hoferbecause our knowledge is limited not just by conceptual frames and language capcities, but also by visuality as a medium

Jen Hoferso in exhibitions we try to see how artists can help us

Jen Hoferand they themsevles are in the process of decolnizing the gaze

11:04 AM

Jen Hoferdecolonizing the western gaze

11:04 AM

Jen Hoferso i really appreciate your question because it reminds me of another word, another concept iv’e been triyng to work with

11:04 AM

Jen Hoferaesthetic coloniality is a way of trying to

11:04 AM

Jen HoferMISSED A SPOT

en Hoferhow does colonial power restrict the focus, the lens through which we’re able to visualize

11:05 AM

Jen Hofertoward a specific field of visaulity which also occludes other dimensions of the visual

11:05 AM

Jen Hoferwhich are a shadow, the dark side of the visual

11:05 AM

Jen Hoferin which we can also exercise other tasks, other processes

11:05 AM

Jen Hoferso this is why an analysis of the image is so important

Jen Hoferimage theories, theories of visuality, are very important

11:05 AM

Jen Hoferraúl has also worked a lot on this, dalida as well — she can tell us a lot about her research around third cinema

11:05 AM

Jen Hoferthis is what i think right now, anyway.

Jen Hoferit would be even more rich if we could work around this first idea also hearing from all of you, from raúl and dalida

Jen Hoferque una de las principales luchas que enfrentamos como artista decoloniales

11:06 AM

Jen Hoferes desprendernos de la colonialidad de lo visual

11:06 AM

Jen Hoferporque la principal lucha es reclamar el cuerpo como espacio sensorial conectado al cosmos

Jen Hoferentonces mientras percibimos aisthesis

11:07 AM

Jen Hofertiene que ver con una conexión entre todos los sentidos

11:07 AM

Jen Hoferdespués de entender cómo toda la idea de espacio se construye por geografías eurocéntricas

Jen Hoferponiendo al norte como el punto clave, por la cuestión magnética

11:07 AM

Jen Hoferla brújula (compass)

11:07 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezcompass!

Jen Hoferla brújula magnética que usaron lxs navegadorxs

Jen Hoferhemos cambiado el enfoque que usaron nuestrxs ancestrxs africanxs e indígenas para orientar el cuerpo, usando el sol, la luna

11:08 AM

Jen Hofermuchxs de nosotrxs tuvimos que reclamar esa orientación, ese conociemiento, realinearnos con el sol

11:08 AM

Jen Hofercomo fuerza y como guía

Jen Hoferpara llegar a un entendimiento de que necesitamos lo que se lllamaba en la isla tortuga “el vivir cosmos, el vivir con los cosmos”

Jen Hofero sea, vivir con uno cosmos, con una naturaleza muy distintos de una noción de vivir DE la naturaleza, de sacar los recursos naturales

11:09 AM

Jen Hoferporque hemos entendido que para que vivamos y existamos, tenemos que respirar

Jen Hofervital

11:09 AM

Jen Hoferen el momento de respirar, respiramos aire cósmico

Jen Hoferes un sistema corporal que nos da energía

Jen Hofercuando tomamos agua, para nosotrxs es como respirar el cosmos, o tomar el agua del cosmos del cual somos todxs parte

11:09 AM

Jen Hoferen relación a una unidad

Jen Hoferasí entendemos cómo es que en comunidades africanas e indígenas luchamos tanto a favor del medio ambiente

Jen Hoferpara no controlar la naturaleza

Jen Hofery llegamos ese entendimiento a nuestro trabajo

11:10 AM

Jen Hoferasí nos desprendemos de lo visual, de crear objetos en tres dimensions que incorporan todos los sentidos y también la comunidad

Jen Hoferno solamente crear objetos hermosos para la contemplación visual

Jen Hofersino también producir objetos integrales para comunicar también con otras personas

11:11 AM

Jen Hofer¿ok?

José Eduardo Sanchezyesss?

11:11 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat happened?

11:11 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezi’m gonna say something although i shouldn’t as an interpters

11:12 AM

José Eduardo SanchezJen: cna you hear me?

José Eduardo Sanchezles quiero agradecer a los traductores

José Eduardo Sanchezme siento como mi verdadero ser

José Eduardo SanchezJEn: can you hear me?

11:12 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezor not?

José Eduardo Sanchezcan you hear me now?

José Eduardo Sanchezi wanted to say something, actually many things

11:13 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezi also went ot iowa

José Eduardo Sanchezi did my masters at Iowa in poetry and translation

11:13 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezantena also works with () he’s very dear to us

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat i wanted to say is that it’s the first time we interpret writing

José Eduardo Sanchezand viscerally, it feels super weird

11:14 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezlike an out of body experience

José Eduardo Sanchezwe’d have to process this in another time

11:14 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezvia the linguistic gaze a

José Eduardo Sanchezas you are saying

11:14 AM

José Eduardo Sancheztranslations has so much to do

José Eduardo Sanchezwith the process of decoloniality

11:14 AM

José Eduardo SanchezRaul: that’s why i feel so great

11:14 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthis fluiditya

11:15 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezand definitely it’s a decolonial experiance for me

11:15 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezand so great that we have Iowa in common

11:15 AM

José Eduardo Sanchez(for better of for worse)

11:15 AM

José Eduardo SanchezJen: i was there between 96 and 99

11:15 AM

José Eduardo SanchezRual: i had already left, by 92

11:15 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezgreat because iowa is a really interesting place

11:16 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezso i’m gonna return to my role as interpreter

Dalida

Jen Hoferwe froze a little bit

11:16 AM

Jen Hofercan we pause for a sec?

11:16 AM

Jen Hofertechnical issues

Jen Hoferannie — can you ask dalida to pause?

11:16 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut maybebut maybe later Jose Eduarod and I can send a follow up email about our experience

José Eduardo SanchezDalida: so i’m thinking about PP’s words

11:17 AM

Jen Hoferoh we’re ok

11:17 AM

Jen Hoferno worries

11:17 AM

Jen Hoferwe unfroze

José Eduardo Sanchezhis words: the field of action is beyond the field of just art

11:17 AM

José Eduardo Sanchez(the field of “making”)

11:17 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezi like that because to me it’s a world of thinking, a world of people, world of wisdom

11:17 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhich is way braoder

11:17 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbroader than the definitions or terms set by “art”

11:18 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezsuch as performance or video

11:18 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezso i’d like to ask you PP, what are some example

11:18 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezabout your life as an artist and curator

11:18 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezi don’t know, they’re not necessarily the best examples, b

11:18 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut what have been some inspiring moments for you

11:18 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezin your practice?

11:18 AM

José Eduardo SanchezPP: Thanks for the clarity in that question,

11:19 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezi think maybe you see it more clearly

11:19 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbecause when one is in the world of practice

11:19 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezit’s hard to reflect since we’re so close to it

11:19 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat i’ve tried to do in terms of thinking of borders is just that

José Eduardo Sanchezin the field of work, there are struggles for deborderification

11:19 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezarts have also been colonized by the social and natural sciences

11:20 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhen the arts are in the university context

11:20 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthe arts faculty is subordinated by the sciences

11:20 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezand there also lie decolonialities

11:20 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut in another sense, we in our practices

11:20 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwe don’t only work with artistsb

11:20 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbut with folks in cutlure

José Eduardo Sanchezfor example popular musicians

11:21 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezso I don’t just work with artists, but with popular musicians

11:21 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezand with popular makers

José Eduardo Sanchezfolks who work in the streets who are not recognized as “artists”

José Eduardo Sanchezand i work with those folks, but also with their discourses

11:21 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezso decolonizing those discourses also includes putting on a horizontal plane

11:22 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat they think and say

José Eduardo Sanchezin terms of aesthetics, what an artisan thinks is just as valuable as an art historian’s

11:22 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezif we place the discourse in the plane of everyday life

11:22 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbecause it’s there where we wage our struggles

José Eduardo Sanchezso there, the art historian’s discourse is equal to the artisan’s discourse

11:22 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezand finally, another really important space is that space of being professors

11:23 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezthe potentiality of being professors

José Eduardo Sanchezbecause we continue being colonizers of knowledge

José Eduardo Sanchezand disseminators of colonial knowledgedb

José Eduardo Sanchezbut we can also create spaces for our students to enter

11:23 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezinto these decolonial conversations

José Eduardo Sanchezand it is with our students where the hope to create these alternative worlds lie

José Eduardo Sanchezso that’s basically what i would say

Raul: i’d like to return to decolonial projects

José Eduardo Sanchezas experience and as curatorial projects

José Eduardo Sanchezto explain a bit more about the way in which i understood this project articulated

11:24 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbecause i think it’s important to say that it was not only an exhibit of works of art on teh wall

José Eduardo Sanchezbut it was also performances and installations

José Eduardo Sanchezthat were conceived and with all of this also a symposium

José Eduardo Sanchezwhere artists and the curators, as well as other intellectuals and critics

11:25 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezwho work on decoloniality

José Eduardo Sanchezwhich took all of us in the audience to a really critical space

José Eduardo Sanchezalso, when PP talked in the introduction, i remember walking the streets of bogota

11:26 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezand talking about a the performance piece “pintura”

José Eduardo Sanchezand my experience with that performance, made me reimagine and rethink painting through various angles

José Eduardo Sanchezwhat happened with Rosa’s performance, is that we got the chance to walk the streets of bogota to find the paints and scents

José Eduardo Sanchezwe were involved in a way beyond what folks usually experience in a gallery

José Eduardo Sanchezpaint is more than just the medium in the frame, it’s a beyond that

José Eduardo Sanchezeveryday artists talked about this at the hoteeel

11:27 AM

José Eduardo Sanchezbenvenuto is a dear friend and younger brother fo rme

José Eduardo Sanchezso as Rosa was discussing the project with us, she was adding elements to her piece

José Eduardo Sanchezwe went in search of the oil paints and the canvas

José Eduardo Sanchezwhen the performance started, even rosa didn’t know what the painting would bea

José Eduardo Sanchezher painting was a very sensorial process

José Eduardo Sanchezas she moved through the canvas, she was painting, and that scent was moving us and transporting us in the audience to different levels

José Eduardo Sancheznot just through the visuals, but the scents and the gestures and movements Rosa made

José Eduardo Sanchezwhen Rosa said she was finished, a ladder was brought in to mount the canvas on the wall

José Eduardo Sanchezi was really surprised

José Eduardo Sanchezbecause the images were not subject to any eurocentric ideas of visual representation

José Eduardo Sanchezit was something abstract

José Eduardo Sanchezbut since i was part of the process, i moved between: was it a painting? a performance?

José Eduardo Sanchezshe communicated with us through the scents

José Eduardo Sanchezthis process made me rethink the entire western process of painting which i learnd in my studies

11:30 AM

Jen Hoferwow, incredible rául!

Jen Hoferthanks so much for sharing such an incredible experience.

11:31 AM

Jen Hofer(that was dalida)

Jen Hoferraúl: i think that every time we get together we have incredible experiences

Jen Hoferlike the one we’re having now with the translation process

Jen Hoferthere’s always something that marks our encounters

11:31 AM

Jen Hoferdalida: yes, I agree

11:31 AM

Jen Hoferannie: me estaba preguntando también…

11:31 AM

Jen Hofergracias por compartir eso

11:31 AM

Jen Hoferme hizo pensar en cómo experimentamos distinas prácticas decolinalies

11:31 AM

Jen Hoferen distintos espacios

11:31 AM

Jen Hoferlo que describiste fue auditorio, sensorial en todos los sentidos

11:32 AM

Jen Hofercómo podemos reconocer que hay distintas decolonialidades que formar las experiencias de cada

11:32 AM

Jen Hoferde cada quien

11:32 AM

Jen Hoferhe formado parte de una red durante una década

11:32 AM

Jen Hoferuna red de mujeres que nos juntamos para responder a las violaciones militares en

11:32 AM

Jen Hoferen okonawa

11:32 AM

Jen Hoferes una rede de mujeres en okinawa, estados unidos, puerto rico, corea, guam y hawaii

11:33 AM

Jen Hofernos juntamos todos los años

11:33 AM

Jen Hoferpero cuesta mucho porque hay que traducir por todas esas lenguas y esos contextos

11:33 AM

Jen Hoferuna de las cosas que hizo maría renat era que diseño una mandala y todas formamos parte de la mandada

11:33 AM

Jen Hofermandala

11:33 AM

Jen Hofer(también filipinas es parte de la red)

11:33 AM

Jen Hofercómo abarcarmos el tiempo, el dinero,

11:33 AM

Jen Hoferel tiempo para juntarnos, para traducir todo,

11:34 AM

Jen Hofercuando pienso en prácticas decoloniales pienso también en decolonizar la noción del tiempo

11:34 AM

Jen Hofero resisitir nociones coloniales de tiempo

11:34 AM

Jen Hoferpara lxs colegas de filipinas están enfrentando un estado militarizado y múltiples legados coloniales, de los españoles, los japoneses, los estados unidos

Jen Hoferestamos pensando largamente…

Jen Hoferraúl: algo pasó con mi google drive

Jen Hofer(no interpretamos los detalles técnicos)

Dalida

Jen Hoferdalida: well, i think we’re reaching the end

Jen Hoferbecause we said we’d talk for about an hour and a half

Jen Hoferand i want to respect everyone’s times

11:36 AM

Jen Hoferand it seems like pedro pablo has something he has to do

11:36 AM

Jen Hoferi hope it’s not an emergency!!

11:36 AM

Jen Hoferah, there he is. hello

11:36 AM

Jen Hoferpedro pablo, i think we’re going to end now

11:36 AM

Jen Hoferbut i don’t know if there are other comments or questions

Jen Hoferother thing to talk about?

11:36 AM

Jen Hoferdoes anyone want to ask anything?

Jen HoferPPGM: i wanted to thank the translaiton process

11:37 AM

Jen Hoferit’s been fantastic!

Jen Hoferto see the simultaneous written translation

11:37 AM

Jen Hoferit’s another experience, very complicated for the translators as jen said

Jen Hoferbut it’s something, it seems to me that it’s a decolonial practice

Jen Hoferto decolonize translation and it’s also a way of decolonizing time

Jen Hoferbecause when you have to pause for the translation, you lose a lot of things in terms of the fluidity of thinking and of discourse

Jen Hoferso the pauses make it harder to think, but this exercise in translation seems fantastic to me

11:38 AM

Jen Hofera decolonial exercise

11:38 AM

Jen Hoferfor me curating is also a decolonial practice

Jen Hofer and what we’re doing here are forms of translation, forms of transit, how to build something in common in a different way

11:38 AM

Jen Hoferand i simply wanted to thank all of you — i’ve learned a lot today, from each of you, from your ideas

Jen Hoferand this is a new chapter in haceres decolinalies!!

11:38 AM

Jen Hoferso thank you very much

Jen Hoferdalida: ok, very good, thank you very very much pedro pablo, and to everyone

11:39 AM

Jen Hoferraúl — a todes!!

11:39 AM

Jen Hoferthanks to everyone, applause applause!!

Jen Hoferand well, we’ll keep going, of course!!

Jen Hofervamos a continuar estos procesos decoloniales!!

11:39 AM

Jen Hoferkisses and hugs to all!

11:40 AM

Event details

The Institute of (im)Possible Subjects invites you to join us for the next installment of our

Migratory Times Salon Series.

This salon will be held in Spanish and English, with translation in collaboration with Antena (http://antenaantena.org/).

Questions we will navigate during this salon include: What are decolonial actions in the context of artistic practice, in Bogotá and elsewhere? What do we need to understand about coloniality to understand the operations of decolonial making and doing? What examples do we have of decolonial practices? What are decolonial aesthetics? How might we pursue them together?

Speaker: Pedro Pablo Gómez

Text: “Haceres Decoloniales” by Pedro Pablo Gómez.

https://share.riseup.net/#k3ROKWkS49v9n2YUQDP4Bg

Time: SATURDAY, MARCH 25, 2017 11 AM BOGOTÁ

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 9:00:00 am PDT

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 10:00:00 am MDtDT

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 11:00:00 am Bogota

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 12:00:00 noon EDT

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 16:00:00 pm CET

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 23:00:00 pm ICT

Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 24:00:00 midnight PHT

Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 1:00:00 am KST

What:

The speaker will give a brief introduction to the text, followed by open discussion moderated by Annie Isabel Fukushima and Dalida María Benfield. Please review the reading before the salon. On March 25 we will convene for a recorded google-hangout to discuss the materials provided. Individuals who RSVP will receive the virtual link to join the salon.

Purpose of the Salons

Our goal is to create a monthly space for collective thinking on the works, ideas, and manifestations that occur through the Institute of (im)Possible Subjects events organized as the platform Migratory Times. We seek to build a transnational community of individuals and collectives thinking together, creating actions, and materializing new content for exhibitions and publications that focus on themes related to migration, gender, and the times and spaces of displacements. The Salons will be recorded and published on our website. Salons are held in different languages, including English, Spanish and Korean; and scheduled to center different time zones.

Who is invited?

Scholars, artists, activists, and the wider participants and communities of our Migratory Times projects and events. We invite our growing transnational community to be in conversation.

To join us:

Please RSVP for the salon via email: instituteofimpossiblesubjects@gmail.com by Friday, May 24, 2017.

Please RSVP to ensure translation support is provided.

https://hangouts.google.com/group/Ed4sI2TBhLvUpH8m2

Forthcoming Salons:

Please note the salons will be held every two months. Interested in sharing your work at a Salon? Contact Annie Isabel Fukushima & Dalida María Benfield. If you have questions about the Salons please contact Annie & Dalida at instituteofimpossiblesubjects@gmail.com

***

El Instituto de Sujetos (im)Posibles les invitan a unirse a nosotras para la próxima entrega de nuestro

Tiempos Migratorios Salón Digital.

Este salón se llevará a cabo en español e inglés, con traducción en colaboración con Antena Los Angeles.

Las preguntas que navegaremos durante este salón son: ¿Qué son los haceres decolonales en el contexto de la práctica artística, en Bogotá y en otros lugares? ¿Qué necesitamos entender acerca de la colonialidad para entender las operaciones de haceres decoloniales? ¿Qué ejemplos tenemos de las prácticas decoloniales? ¿Qué son las estéticas decoloniales? ¿Cómo podríamos crear y hacerlas juntos?

Con una presentación de: Pedro Pablo Gómez

Texto: “Haceres Decoloniales” de Pedro Pablo Gómez.

Https://share.riseup.net/#k3ROKWkS49v9n2YUQDP4Bg

Hora: SÁBADO, 25 DE MARZO DE 2017 11 AM BOGOTÁ

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 9:00:00 am PDT

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 10:00:00 am MDtDT

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 11:00:00 am Bogota

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 12:00:00 noon EDT

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 16:00:00 pm CET

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 23:00:00 pm ICT

Domingo, 26 de marzo de 2017 a las 24:00:00 midnight PHT

Domingo, 26 de marzo de 2017 a las 1:00:00 am KST

Qué:

El 25 de marzo nos reuniremos para un google-hangout registrado para discutir los materiales proporcionados. Las personas que RSVP recibirán el enlace virtual para unirse al salón. El orador dará una breve introducción al texto, y después vamos a tener un debate abierto moderado por Annie Isabel Fukushima y Dalida María Benfield. Por favor revise la lectura antes del salón.

Propósito de los Salones

Nuestro objetivo es crear un espacio mensual para el pensamiento colectivo sobre las obras, las ideas y las manifestaciones que se producen a través del Instituto de (im) Posibles sujetos eventos organizados como la plataforma Migratory Times. Buscamos construir una comunidad transnacional de individuos y colectivos pensando juntos, creando acciones y materializando nuevos contenidos para exposiciones y publicaciones que se centren en temas relacionados con la migración, el género, y los tiempos y espacios de desplazamientos. Los Salones serán registrados y publicados en nuestro sitio web. Los salones se llevan a cabo en diferentes idiomas, incluyendo inglés, español y coreano; Y programado para centrar zonas horarias diferentes.

¿Quién está invitado?

Estudiantes, artistas, activistas y los participantes y comunidades más amplias de nuestros proyectos y eventos de Migratory Times. Invitamos a nuestra creciente comunidad transnacional a estar en conversación.

A unirse a nosotros:

Por favor, RSVP para el salón por correo electrónico: instituteofimpossiblesubjects@gmail.com antes del viernes, 24 de mayo de 2017.

Por favor RSVP para asegurar que tengamos soporte de traducción

https://hangouts.google.com/group/Ed4sI2TBhLvUpH8m2

Próximos Salones:

Tenga en cuenta que los salones se llevará a cabo cada dos meses. ¿Interesado en compartir su trabajo en un salón? O si tiene preguntas sobre los Salones, por favor contacte Annie & Dalida por instituteofimpossiblesubjects@gmail.com

Event details

The Institute of (im)Possible Subjects invites you to join us for the next installment of our

Migratory Times Salon Series.

This salon will be held in Spanish and English, with translation in collaboration with Antena (http://antenaantena.org/).

Speaker: Pedro Pablo Gómez

Text: “Haceres Decoloniales” by Pedro Pablo Gómez.

https://share.riseup.net/#k3ROKWkS49v9n2YUQDP4Bg

Time: SATURDAY, MARCH 25, 2017 11 AM BOGOTÁ

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 9:00:00 am PDT

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 10:00:00 am MDtDT

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 11:00:00 am Bogota

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 12:00:00 noon EDT

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 16:00:00 pm CET

Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 23:00:00 pm ICT

Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 24:00:00 midnight PHT

Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 1:00:00 am KST

What:

Purpose of the Salons

Who is invited?

Scholars, artists, activists, and the wider participants and communities of our Migratory Times projects and events. We invite our growing transnational community to be in conversation.

To join us:

Please RSVP for the salon via email: instituteofimpossiblesubjects@gmail.com by Friday, May 24, 2017.

Please RSVP to ensure translation support is provided.

https://hangouts.google.com/group/Ed4sI2TBhLvUpH8m2

Forthcoming Salons:

***

El Instituto de Sujetos (im)Posibles les invitan a unirse a nosotras para la próxima entrega de nuestro

Tiempos Migratorios Salón Digital.

Este salón se llevará a cabo en español e inglés, con traducción en colaboración con Antena Los Angeles.

Con una presentación de: Pedro Pablo Gómez

Texto: “Haceres Decoloniales” de Pedro Pablo Gómez.

Https://share.riseup.net/#k3ROKWkS49v9n2YUQDP4Bg

Hora: SÁBADO, 25 DE MARZO DE 2017 11 AM BOGOTÁ

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 9:00:00 am PDT

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 10:00:00 am MDtDT

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 11:00:00 am Bogota

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 12:00:00 noon EDT

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 16:00:00 pm CET

Sábado, 25 de marzo de 2017 a las 23:00:00 pm ICT

Domingo, 26 de marzo de 2017 a las 24:00:00 midnight PHT

Domingo, 26 de marzo de 2017 a las 1:00:00 am KST

Qué:

Propósito de los Salones

¿Quién está invitado?

A unirse a nosotros:

Por favor, RSVP para el salón por correo electrónico: instituteofimpossiblesubjects@gmail.com antes del viernes, 24 de mayo de 2017.

Por favor RSVP para asegurar que tengamos soporte de traducción

https://hangouts.google.com/group/Ed4sI2TBhLvUpH8m2

Próximos Salones:

Migratory Times Salon with Pedro Pablo Gómez / Tiempos Migratorios Salón con Pedro Pablo Gómez

Migratory Times Salon with Pedro Pablo Gómez

Translation provided in collaboration with Antena (http://antenaantena.org/).

Questions we will navigated during this salon included: What are decolonial actions in the context of artistic practice, in Bogotá and elsewhere? What do we need to understand about coloniality to understand the operations of decolonial making and doing? What examples do we have of decolonial practices? What are decolonial aesthetics? How might we pursue them together?

Purpose of the Salons
Our goal is to create a monthly space for collective thinking on the works, ideas, and manifestations that occur through the Institute of (im)Possible Subjects events organized as the platform Migratory Times. We seek to build a transnational community of individuals and collectives thinking together, creating actions, and materializing new content for exhibitions and publications that focus on themes related to migration, gender, and the times and spaces of displacements. The Salons will be recorded and published on our website. Salons are held in different languages, including English, Spanish and Korean; and scheduled to center different time zones.

***

Tiempos Migratorios Salón con Pedro Pablo Gómez

Traducción en colaboración con Antena (http://antenaantena.org/).

Propósito de los Salones
Nuestro objetivo es crear un espacio mensual para el pensamiento colectivo sobre las obras, las ideas y las manifestaciones que se producen a través del Instituto de (im) Posibles sujetos eventos organizados como la plataforma Migratory Times. Buscamos construir una comunidad transnacional de individuos y colectivos pensando juntos, creando acciones y materializando nuevos contenidos para exposiciones y publicaciones que se centren en temas relacionados con la migración, el género, y los tiempos y espacios de desplazamientos. Los Salones serán registrados y publicados en nuestro sitio web. Los salones se llevan a cabo en diferentes idiomas, incluyendo inglés, español y coreano; Y programado para centrar zonas horarias diferentes.

Kiri Dalena

Kiri Lluch Dalena

Kiri Dalena is an acclaimed visual artist and filmmaker known internationally for her works that lay bare the social inequalities and injustices that continue to persist, particularly in the Philippines. Her active involvement in the mass struggle to uphold human rights amidst state persecution is the foundation for her art practice that underscores the relevance of protest and civil disobedience in contemporary society.

Dalena’s works are both documentation and critical commentary on historical and current state of national political affairs. “Erased Slogans” (2008-today) for instance, is a series of digitally-manipulated scanned photographs documenting the numerous demonstrations during the Martial Law era under then Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos in the 1970s. Deleting all the text that has been previously written in the placards, the artist encapsulates the magnitude of government suppression carried out under the military regime. “Red Saga” (2004), originally captured in film, recounts the intense armed hostility towards radical individuals and serves as a call for sustained uprising. Meanwhile, “Requiem for M” (2010) tackles one the most brutal murder of journalists in the world – the Maguindanao Massacre – and the culture of impunity that plagues the Philippines.

Dalena’s films have been screened in numerous international film festivals, exemplry of which is Tungkung Langit (Lullabye for a Storm) (2012) – a three-channel video chronicle of two orphaned children coping with the aftermath of a typhoon that devastated Mindanao (southern region of the Philippines) in 2011. The film has been shown in Visions du Reel (SW, 2014), Naqsh Short Film Festival (BH, 2014) and in the Sharjah Biennale 11 Film Program (AE, 2013), among others.

Kiri Dalena graduated from the University of the Philippines-Los Baños with an undergraduate degree in Human Ecology, and pursued further studies in 16mm documentary filmmaking at the Mowefund Film Institute. She has participated in several group exhibitions at UP Vargas Museum (Manila/PH), Ateneo Art Gallery (Manila/PH), Lopez Memorial Museum (Manila/PH), Museum of Contemporary Art & Design (Manila/PH), Cultural Center of the Philippines (Manila/PH) and Museum of Contemporary Art Tokyo (JP), among others. A recipient of the CCP 13 Artists Award (Manila/PH, 2012) and Ateneo Art Awards (Manila/PH, 2009), Dalena has also been featured in several international art events such as the Singapore Biennale (2013), Yokohama Triennale (Yokohama/JP, 2014), Fukuoka Asian Art Triennale (Fukuoka/JP, 2014), and the Asia Pacific Triennial of Contemporary Art (Brisbane/AU, 2015). The artist has been invited to be part of the 2016 Busan Biennale. Her works are currently in the permanent collections of the Singapore Art Museum, Queensland Art Gallery | Gallery of Modern Art, and the Ateneo Art Gallery.

Kiri Dalena was born in Manila in 1975. She lives and works in Manila and Mindanao, Philippines.

http://www.1335mabini.com/exhibitionskiri-dalena

In the Spirit of Itzpaplotl, Venceremos

This exhibit highlights feminine leadership exerted by Chicana editors of the newspaper “Venceremos,” established at the University of Utah in 1993. The series of photographs and paintings portray the first Chicana editor and her predecessors, whose strength and perseverance carried the paper from 2008 to present, and after its brief hiatus from 2001-2007. We define their driving force through the reclaiming of Itzpapalotl. Itzpapalotl Spirit as we have named this feminine energy “is grounded in an indigenous worldview that reveres women as fierce protectors of the domains that produce life, ideas, and knowledge.” (Aleman and Olivo) Archived issues can be found: http://venceremosutah.com/publications/archived-issues/

Through a collaborative practice this exhibit intertwines paintings by Ruby Chacón, photographs by Flor Olivo, and feminist scholarly research by Dr. Sonya Alemán and Flor Olivo. We are committed to work that isn’t in competition with each other, rather in conversation. Process is the most meaningful part when working collaboratively, we work in this way to push back on standard processes that academic and “higher”art spaces often regulate. We engage in producing quality work, not just for our own benefit but for the greater good of our intersecting communities.

Our intention is to ensure that forms of storytelling and art making produce life-affirming realizations and continue to uplift our communities. By seeking to create spaces of belonging, shaped by shared histories of marginality and resistance, the images tell a story of conviction. In our own ancestry we continue to retell herstories of feminine leadership, specifically Chicana Feminist leadership, that have enabled spaces of creativity and that have birthed ideas, art and knowledge amongst systems of oppression.

Ruby Chacón co founded Mestizo Institute of Culture and Arts (MICA), the first gallery of it’s kind in Utah. She has been published in books, magazines, calendars, as well as covers for academic books. Her most recent book cover is: “Transforming Educational Pathways for Chicano/a Students” by authors Dolores Delgado Bernal and Enrique Aleman, Teachers College Press. Her numerous awards include: Utah Governor’s Mansion Award for visual arts, Salt Lake City Mayor’s Award for Visual Arts, Humanitarian Award, Distinguished Alumni, and Utah’s 15 most influential artists. Chacón moved to Sacramento in 2013. Her Sacramento public art projects include: Cesar Chavez Intermediate outdoor mural, Utility box designs in the Alkalai Flats and Meadowview neighborhoods, and upcoming: a design for the light rail and community mural on 2nd Avenue in Oak Park. Contact: rubychacon759@gmail.com or https://www.facebook.com/groups/ChicanaArtRubyChacon/

Flor Olivo is a local SLC photographer and communication professional/instructor. She has documented hundreds of events in Salt Lake City, taken photographs used for local political campaigns, marketing, and news organizations. She has created several independent short films for local community organizations and higher-ed institutions. Her images and short films have been published independently but also through the Venceremos Newspaper, West View Community Newspaper, and El Periodico de Utah for which she has served as a reporter, photographer and later Managing Editor and/or Editor-in-Chief. Flor also teaches courses at the U of U Gender Studies Department and at Salt Lake Community College. Her most recent research publication: “Guided by the Itzpapalotl Spirit: Chicana Editors practice a form of spiritual activism” by Aleman and Olivo was accepted by the Frontiers scholarly journal. Contact: flawur@gmail.com or flawurmedia.com

1. “Movimiento”

2. “Chavela”

3. “Breaking Barriers, Creating Educational Pathways” design for mural. In collaboration with American River students. Chacón designed and led project.

4. “Resistencia United” mural in collaboration with Brown Issues. Chacón designed and co-led with Nanibah Chacón.

and others:

5. The next two are, “Multigenerational women Danzantes”

6. “Herstory”

7. “Student Life: Still We Rise”

8. “When Spiders Unite they can Take down a Lion” Chalk art (Zapatista quote)

9. “First Women Miners in Helper, Utah”

10 “Self as La Llorona”

11. “Hope and Determination” mural

12. “Grandpa and his Goat”

13. “Chicano Panzon”

14. “Los Chacones: Still We Rise”

“Barbed Wire Series”

The “Barbed Wire Series” consists of a series of prints, multi-channel moving image installations, and a cat’s cradle shadow installation. It’s based on the shape of the barbed wire at the US army base in my hometown in South Korea. The memory of walking along the barbed wire fence in my old hometown and playing cat’s cradle with my sister against the wall connects to the political tension on military borders. Despite the growing threats and tension at borders, the shapes of the tangled and distorted barbed wire are aesthetically repetitive and beautiful as abstract line drawings. I hope there is a way to peacefully loosen the tangled tension as if it were like children playing cat’s cradle.

Kakyoung Lee received her BFA and MFA from Hong-Ik University, as well as an MFA from SUNY-Purchase College, NY. She has exhibited in numerous exhibitions internationally, including at the Drawing Center, New York; Hofstra University, Hempstead; Kunsthalle Bremen, DE; Mass MOCA, North Adams; Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York; Museum of Contemporary Art, Banja Luka, Bosnia; Museum Folkwang, Essen, DE; Museum of Modern Art, New York; Oqbo, Berlin, DE; Queens Museum, New York; and Seoul Arts Center, Korea. She has held residencies at Omi, ISCP, Jamaica Center for Arts and Learning, Marie Walsh Sharp Foundation, MacDowell Colony, and Yaddo. She has received the Pollock-Krasner Foundation grant, NYFA Fellowship, the Ahl Foundation grant, and KAFA award. She was the 2017 recipient of the American Academy of Arts and Letter Purchase Award.

Lee’s works are in the collections of Asia Society, New York; McNay Art Museum, TX; the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York; Cleveland Museum of Art, Ohio; and Library of Congress, Washington D.C. among others.

Salon with the Institute of (Im)Possible Subjects – Silhouettes: Migration, (Un)Documented, and Pedagogies – Transcription

Speakers

Crystal Baik (California)
Dalida Maria Benfield (Massachussetts)
Ruby Chacon (California/Utah)
Jose Manuel Cortez (Utah)
Cindy Cruz (California)
Annie Isabel Fukushima (Utah)
Sarita Gaytan (Utah)
Juan Herrera (California)

October 17, 2017

Annie: Alright folks, we are actually going to go around because I think some folks don’t know each other in this space so I want to make sure we all know who’s here, but first of all I just want to thank you all and welcome you to our salon. And, so I’m part of the Institute of Impossible Subjects and every once in a while we organize what we call these salons where we just bring together a small group of folks who have an intimate dialogue around something that is related to Migratory Times, themes that are related to Migratory Times. The Institute of Impossible Subjects is a feminist collective and we do pedagogical events, research, as well as we are working on publications and so we are almost there with publishing our website which will be a multi-media and interactive platform and we will invite all of you back because you participated in our different activities. We want to invite you back to participate in the website. For today though, we are doing the salon with the Institute of Impossible Subjects which is called Silhouettes – migration, undocumented and pedagogies. And here we have in this group we have Crystal Baik, Dalida Maria Benfield joining in by phone and will be joining by video soon, we also have Ruby Chacon, Jose Manuel Cortez, Cindy Cruz, myself Annie Isabel Fukushima, Sarita Gaytan, Juan Herrera. And so I’m actually going to just have us before we get officially started with the reading and the discussion together, is I would love if we could just go around and introduce ourselves, and so we will start with the folks who are on camera so we will go Cindy, Ruby, Crystal, Juan and then and then I’ll direct who’s next and I won’t forget the phone person Dalida, but (laughs) Cindy, Ruby, Crystal Baik. And so if Crystal and Juan if you can just introduce yourself. Say where you are coming from and then if there’s anything you know that you want to say about why immigration matters to you we’d love to hear about that. And so we are just going to do a quick go around.

Ruby: Hi everybody, it so great to meet and see new faces. My name is Ruby Chacon. I am originally from Salt Lake City, Utah and I live in Sacramento. I am an artist and a muralist. I am co-founder of Mestizo for Cultural Arts in Salt Lake City, in which I still sit on the board for. And a lot of my work I guess stems from cultural issues, social justice, and creating visible kind of representing marginalized communities. Just through my own life experience the reason why immigration matters is because racism and discrimination is a repeated pattern, which I see in my own family and is today with current immigrants. And so I like to use a lot of rehousing and reshaping stories through images, murals and painting. I guess that’s kind of been in that shell what I who I am (laughs).

Annie: Crystal?

14:10 Crystal: Okay, hi everyone it’s so nice to meet and see all of your beautiful faces this morning. I’m actually calling in from Los Angeles. I teach at UC Riverside and commute there from LA. So I want to thank Annie for organizing this. I’m always so inspired by all of the activities that she is organizing in the Institute so really thankful for this space. So I think there are a lot of reasons why immigration and this discussion is so important to me besides the personal experiences. I work with a lot of immigrant students so for folks who don’t know the demographics of UC Riverside, let’s say 70 to 80 students, 70% to 80% of the students are first gen, a lot of students of color, a lot of undocumented students as well. All of my classes I’ve taught, I’ve always had a handful of undocumented students in that classroom and we’ve always had sort of these discussions around on one hand how do we sort of mobilize the current tools that are available to us: political, cultural, and so forth on, in regards to maintaining safety for themselves and their families. But also thinking about some of the more radical critiques around the nation state and the notion of citizenship, thinking about those issues have been really important to me. I also work pretty closely to the Cambodian community here in LA, especially in Long Beach. I’m a board member of Khmer in action so it’s a good way it’s a community that has really helped and been impacted obviously by different kind of intersecting immigration issues so yeah so really excited to be participating in what I hope will be the beginning point of different kinds of conversations that we might be having.

16:11 Juan: Hi everyone, I also live in Los Angeles and hope. I teach at UCLA and my personal connection to migration is that I immigrated myself and so it’s something that touches myself and my family and just basically everything, every aspect of me. I do research with undocumented immigrants. One of our projects is with undocumented day laborers. But I just am always really interested in having these kind of discussions to think critically about the role of academics in issues of immigration. And how we can support students but also the community that we work with.

Dalida: Hi everyone and thanks to Annie for organizing this salon and it’s really great to hear your voices. I am Dalida Maria Benfield, I’m an artist and an ethnic studies scholar. And my research and writing is on contemporary artists who engage spaces of migration and displacement as actually the place from which new forms expression new forms of visual languages and epistemologies or ways of knowing emerges. And with Annie I’ve been working through this platform the idea of the Institute of (Im)possible Subjects. In which the Impossible Subjects is the title of Mae Ngai’s book that traces the shifting lines of political subjectivity experienced by Asian Americans over the 20th century. And so this idea of the impossible subject is really at the core of what the Institute is focused on which is creating spaces in which you know, all of us, who are impossible subjects can share our experiences and also create opportunity for people outside of academic institutions to engage in knowledge projection and sharing together, collectively. So anyways I’ll stop there and I’m just really excited for this discussion.

19:30 Cindy: I’m an associate professor at UC Santa Cruz in the Department of Education. I work with youth, homeless, queer youth in Los Angeles California. I’ve only recently begun to think about migration or movement with the subjects, now in UC Santa Cruz it’s a big deal, 43% first generation Latino students here and so migration and movement and mobility it’s just like these things emerging in this new data that I’ve collected so the part that I want to rethink homeless has forced migration. I want to think about migration that happens after young people cross multiple borders to come back to the US after deportation. And I’ve wanted to think about with others that feel like crazy town and I wanted to think about the role of technology and these kinds of I think about Lugones she talks about survival and all these kinds of technologies that young people are accessing in order to make it, to survive in Los Angeles. And so that I kind of think, I want to think about migration as movements but maybe a forced movement and even the forced movement within certain communities of California within Los Angeles and so that’s kind of where I am right now. I have lots of questions and would love to talk to people. Thank you for inviting me.

Sarita: Hi Sarita Gaytan University of Utah Department of Sociology and Gender Studies. I would say kind of on a personal level as the daughter of immigrants who had two very different immigration stories. One from South America and the other from Europe. I feel very much in a kind of at the crossroads of knowing the different types of politics that play out on people’s lived experiences in the United States. Having a father who came undocumented and a mother who arrived with documentation just being part of that lived experience I think is kind of really, I don’t know, really just kind of fueled the way I see the world and understand and try to relate to my students, you know many of whom at the University of Utah are both first generation also born to immigrant parents and a great deal of whom are undocumented today. I would say with regard to my research, I am very much interested in questions around the nation and more so less regard to people’s experiences but more in terms of objects and things and how ideas around illegality travel through commodities and my first project was around the travels of tequila through the United States and Mexico beginning through the project of colonialization and it’s kind of border crossings into the American imaginary. Some new projects are thinking about these through the new passage of Mescal into the United States this kind of baby of craft imaginaries in the this kind of optic of whiteness this kind of reclaiming of a different type of kind of consumption of Mexican identity and how this really does kind of get depoliticized from how people understand Mexican experience in the United States but also in Mexico and this kind of fetishization of poverty. So thinking again through the movement of commodities as migratory objects.

24:00 Jose: Hi my name is Jose Cortez, I’m a first year assistant professor here at the University of Utah so thank you to Annie and the rest of you for having me, I’m so excited to join you. I’m very happy and look forward to continuing this interdisciplinary collaboration. I’m interested in migration personally because I am the son of a migrant, first generation Mexican American and I’ve always been interested in the concept of impossibility because I had asked my parents growing up why we really never had any written documentation in terms of genealogy and I think when there’s this idea of forced migration being floated around that when folks flee that is not something that that’s not a that’s not a technological privilege that follows forced migration sometimes. So I’ve always been interested in the possibilities for signification and or maybe the impossibilities for signification in migratory experiences. And professionally I’m interested in looking impossibility as a concept for thinking the limits of critical thought in tracking migratory patterns. So I’m just interested in looking at some non-fiction accounts at the moment like Luis Alberto Urrea, the Devils Highway, and another non-fiction book called The Beast in which we are asking critical questions about what are the possibilities for folks who maybe completely politically unintelligible to tell stories and to signify and what that what that tells us as academics who and allows us to question our role in telling our stories and collaborating with these folks and the impossibilities they’re in. And whether or not it is possible for us to not continue to reproduce the conditions that you know in critical thought that establish the patterns for these forced migrations. So what are the possibilities for acting outside of these patterns of capital and globalization that could think about migration otherwise, if that makes sense. So thank you.

Annie: Thank you. And I’ll introduce myself too. My name is Annie Isabel Fukushima and I know actually I think I know everyone in different contexts here, but to introduce myself too my work I look at Asian and Latino migrants that are trafficked in the United States. And so I’ve been deeply interested in how we witness violence and migration and in particular how we unsettle witnessing, because the forms of witnessing that currently dominate the ways that we see, experience around legality, citizenship and victimhood, have been defined by these normative frames. And so that’s something I’ve been working on for quite some time. I also have been interested in theories of social death and so I am presenting a paper on zombie pedagogies which I’m really excited about (laughs) and so yay. I’m just I’m just so excited to see you all here and we’re going to go ahead and get started with a reading and listening to a poem together. Have a conversation around that and then Ruby is going to walk us through her work in which we will then look at her work and then have conversation around that. And then if we want to have conversations around other things we can, but we will definitely need to wrap up at at noon our time which I can’t remember what time that is for you all, but we’ll be I’ll try to make sure to be very mindful of people’s times. So you probably can see my screen right now and here we have we’ve already introduced ourselves and now we are going to listen to Sonia Guiñansaca’s poem, Bursting of Photographs After Trying to Squeeze Out Old Memories. And she herself is an undocumented individual. She might have received documentation in the past couple of years, but when she, when I first saw her article it was in 2015 in which she is Ecuadorian who lives in Harlem and she’s a poet and so I thought it would lovely to start with sound and poetry together so we could have something that would be [unknown words] together. And that’s not working so good thing I already have it open here too. So let’s see. There we go. (large pause as something gets set up)

29:18 Sonia Guiñansaca’s: Bursting of Photographs After Trying to Squeeze Out Old Memories.

They don’t tell you this when you migrate:

Old Polaroid’s are never enough
You are left tracing the silhouette of your grandparents
Or whatever is left

Of them

How many years has it been,
5,10, or 20?
It’s been 20

In those 20 years you have been asked

To hide your accent

Sow your tongue

So that no more Rrrr’s roll out

Straighten up
So that white Jesus accepts you

So that the lawyer helps you

Dig out the roots

Of your home

From underneath your nails
Cut your trenza

Pledge allegiance to the flag
And when you cannot,
Each thread will cut through

Every inch of you
To teach you, your kind was not meant

For this country

Dad told you that they will measure your success based on how smart you could be
So, you tried to be smart

Books after books you chased vocabulary for value
Legislation to give you meaning

Yes, sir. I am a skilled worker
Yes, sir. I can contribute
No, sir. I haven’t committed any crimes
Pinned. Against One. Another

You remember that your mother almost didn’t make it through the Border
Or any legislation, this time around

She won’t make it into health care packages
She won’t be remembered during press conferences

She will be dissected, and researched and researched and researched and researched and researched
How much she doesn’t belong will be published

They don’t tell you this when you migrate

Annie: Sorry about that, so now I’d love if we just could open up for conversation around the poem. We will just spend some time thinking about this poem together and so I just wanted to invite anybody who would love to respond to Sonia’s work.

Crystal: I mean I really loved how the poem, I was listening to it earlier this morning too, in terms of… it’s a conversation that I have had with a lot of my students about you know what is the meaning of documentation. I mean what does that mean in terms of both the kind of, and Annie you were gesturing to this in your intro too, this it’s really more officials or nation state or documentation and alternative forms of documentation in terms of you know I think about documents about like you know, traces or some sorts some sort of evidential traits. And I think the poem really reminds me of the necessity sort of think about alternative forms of documentation in terms of lived experiences. You know, I love sort of sonic traits of the poem which I thought was really powerful and also thinking about like the [unknown word] she sort of gestures to images and I think like photography. So it’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about with my students and also in terms of even kind of objectly you know, how do we sort of create different pathways for students to think about alternative forms of documentation, right, as both an imaginative act but also as kind of a testament to their own experiences, right, and how it doesn’t align with sort of how the nation state thinks about documentation. So I’ve been thinking more about that and that was truly powerful for me.

Sarita: Hmm. I really liked that, that resonated with me as well. I think that part of, you know, part of the promise of the American, the American fantasy of national process progress, I don’t know, the fantasy of the American national belonging is that the nation will accept you. I think part of what happens and part of what is becoming more and more I think has been evident for a lot of people for a long time is this moment of realization that the nation does not want to accept you and what do you do at that moment? Like you dad will tell you, right, your dad will tell you where is it, in this poem…

Annie: At the top…

Sarita: Dad told you that they will measure your success based on how smart you could be so you tried to be smart, like even when your dad is going to bring you the American promise and hold that the goodness that there is a moment of rupture. There is a moment of rupture for some people where they realize they never are going to belong. There is no point to assimilation. There is no point of carry over where the national symbolic is going to incorporate them and they are going to be part of this American success story. And I’m going to leave it at that. (Various voices say “yeah” in agreement)

Jose: The moment in the poem where she is saying “yes sir I’m a skilled worker, yes sir I can contribute, no sir I haven’t committed any crimes” making me think about this idea that you know that what if we were to consider the border as a threshold not designed to keep people out, but to force people through as specific kinds of subjects, as waged laborers, as a form of production, and then in then end a specific kind of value that the border produces. (various voices say “hmm” in consideration) In this form of belonging that doesn’t belong. So we want the good migrant, we don’t want the bad migrant, but there’s some kind of tension there that I haven’t really teased out that is pointing me to in this belonging but not belonging and being forced through the border. So I don’t know.

37:00 Annie: Yeah. Yeah. Other thoughts? (pause to let others respond) I think for me, it makes me what you were just saying Jose, makes me think about something that I’ve been thinking through which is the how migrants are bound to be seen. And not just migrants, all of us, right, we are bound to being seen in these dualities around citizenship, which then means noncitizenship, legality, which then reifies illegality, victims and criminals. And we are always bound to seeing migrants in this way, and I think that this poem is really speaking to that and I also resonated with the research part because then I think that as a scholar when she was researched echoing that, Cindy, when you were emphasizing that, I think for me, it makes me think about what is our responsibility? I identify as a scholar, activists. And so being a scholar and activist, how do I continue to participate in forms of witnessing that don’t then reproduce this person who feels like they are always going to be an object of study. But that there can be things… what can, and so in a way it can be, it can feel paralyzing right? And so, so there’s huge responsibility to the kind of research that we do that she she’s calling us out on, right, saying, and I think it’s an important thing to think about, especially being here in the institution. I’m sitting in the University of Utah, you know, I’m sitting in an institution that researches migrants, says they, that Utah is welcoming to migrants, and yet there’s this contradiction around these centers that come up. We have different centers that come that study migrants, but we also have mass deportation happening, we also have incarcerations happening. And so then, yeah, I really, this poem spoke to me as well.

39:05 Crystal: And I think that the, you know, in this space and hopefully in other conversation that will be had, I mean I’m really interested in thinking about that Annie, in terms of what you just said what others were echoing in terms of research and scholarship and I think all of us have sort of personal ties to migration or immigration. But also, our fairly privileged, you know, positions, right? So, thinking about different ways of strategizing together of how to really support as teachers, undocumented students, not just as sort of objects of study, right, obviously. (unknown voice says “mm hmm” in agreement) But also in terms of what are different ways of really supporting the [unknown words] there in research, right? And through finding different venues and different strategies in doing that, I mean something that I’ve been thinking about a lot with my grad students as well. I would love to just sort of think and you know hear about because I just kind of [unknown words] sort of in that in that vein too.

40:15 Cindy: You know, when you said that, well in principle I would think it’s how I would I can’t wait to play the [unknown words] in my class and talk about DACA, you know, and immigration and you know. I teach education classes and sometimes they feel kind of far away from these issues. Like you know, once you’re, well I’m just thinking about how important it was to bring the art into our classes. And I know it’s at UC Santa Cruz, I don’t think students get enough of the arts, things are so siloed off that they’re not able to kind of [unknown words] we don’t even really [unknown words] the arts department until like after then. But I think that, like to bring in Ruby’s paintings to show undergraduates while I’m thinking about DACA students. Bring in, like at the start of class, poems. You know, to kind of adapt pedagogically. Because so much research isn’t going to get at this, this assimilationable kind of body or this feeling or research, research, research. You know, and, and I think how important for us to do this kind of interdisciplinary kinds of teaching and to draw from these, especially artists. I feel like artists have been foreclosed, in particular in California. [unknown words] you don’t get any art and then you’re at the UC unless you’re an art student you’re not really going to get any art either or poetry or anything visual. Unless you go to a small, private, liberal arts college where you’re lucky to have a couple of faculty color. And you know, and so when I think about like the importance of this kind of, I don’t know, creative work, this is, I think, like cutting [unknown word]. This is where, I think, like, maybe this is the place for those kind of really kind of interesting and engaging discussions can happen with our students. Last year I, I had taught an advanced foundation class for my Ph.D. students and I entered the classes, it was really intense. And I started class with Tim Z. Hernandez “All they will call you.” And so I started this class with the [unknown words] so when he does respond with that [unknown words] and it was really moving because it reminded me of like, why are we here doing this Ph.D. and to remind students like the urgency of the kind of work that so many of them are doing each year at UC Santa Cruz looking at migrant families, looking migrant students, looking at the process. Half the students are doing projects like that and so like, you know, entering the class with Tim Z Hernandez book was like “oh” like what a breath of fresh air to kind of bring the arts in to the to the, I have to say kind of dry social science, social science kind of classes. And to give that to them, you know, to, you know, to expand their worlds. Because like our research doesn’t really get at that, but literature does and poetry does and art does, especially paintings like yours Ruby. You know I’ve always admired your work since I heard about it years ago. And I have to give it to my grad students and to my undergrad, to get them to move in each other circles. Maybe they’re not so [unknown words], you know, used to that that well [unknown words] like. We have to bridge that pedagogically. It’s so nice to hear that poem. You forget, you know.

Annie: Did Juan or Dalida, who is on phone still, or actually it looks like she might be joining by video, but Juan or Dalida want to say anything, or?

44:17 Juan: Yeah, I just wanted to echo what people have been saying just because I I feel like as a dry social scientist I sometimes forget about the arts, right (various voices laugh) In my own life, just because I, I’m not really into poetry (various voices laugh) [unknown words] so I love hearing you all like [unknown words]. And yeah, I just, I realized how important, especially like not just like pedagogically, to get at different kinds of media that I’ve used, but also just like to keep people entertained, especially undergrads, right? I always forget that part of this teaching process is also about making learning fun, right? And making learning engaging for like 18, 19, 20 year olds, right? And so, yes of course, how powerful poetry is and other forms of art. And it’s just a reminder to me to incorporate it much more.

Annie: There you are, hi Maria. Maria is Dalida too, sorry. Same person. Yeah. Oh we can’t hear you. We can’t hear you.

Dalida: Okay, there…

Annie: Okay, great, perfect…

Dalida: Okay great. Yay. Yeah it’s great to see you it’s nice to see everyone’s faces and it’s been really nice to listen to you through the phone also. And yeah I, I want to say two things about the poem. One is just the idea of silhouettes or the image of silhouettes is so, it’s just so powerful and I feel like it opens up so many different pathways for thinking together about visibility and invisibility. And you know, how we, also in the image you know, the idea too of the shadow is really powerful. And I think on a, one of the things I’ve been thinking a lot about is the idea of ancestralities and how we claim our ancestral ways. How we claim our an ancestors. How we how we support each other or create situations create social conditions in which we can claim our ancestors. And so, yeah, and then another thing I just want to echo what everyone is saying about the power of diverse forms of communication. I am so, you know I think the arts is one way to say that and maybe another way to say it is just that you know, we have many, many ways that we can communicate with each other. And that kind of academic forms of the book and of you know, writing, you know these are forms that have exercised a coloniality. The colonizing of our sense of what is official knowledge. And so, for me, one of the, you know ways of thinking about a decolonial sociality is to also think about a diversity of forms of communication. Which also are just, you know they open so many, like ways of feeling, and which are very nourishing, you know for us and for our imaginations, so.

Annie: Wow, did anyone, no go ahead, no go ahead, oh I was like did anyone else want to say anything? I, I’m sorry, I’m checking time because, it’s, I want to make sure we get to Ruby’s work and I don’t want us to run out of time and not see visuals together. So did anyone, we, before we get to Ruby’s work, did you want to add anything else? Do you feel like there is something that has not been placed on the table? Yeah Ruby would you like to say something?

49:25 Ruby?: I would like to say something small because I, my, I had problems with my headphones. I got booted off the phone call and I was trying to repeat that [unknown words] and I couldn’t, I didn’t hear the poem. I remember I listened to it when you first sent it, so I’m trying to grasp on to what has been said through you all, what you all are saying. One thing that I remember, I don’t remember the details of the call, but what I do remember after I listened to that poem when you sent it the first time was how it resonated with me was that grasping of memories of self and who you are and not exactly what, Dalida talked about being colonized, and trying to decolonize through these memories, grasping on to these memories and I think I remember there was a part, was there a part where she lost photos?

Annie: Yes, yeah..

50:27 Ruby?: Okay…

Annie: Photos…

Ruby?: Okay so this is, I’m grasping from the first sentence, and I just, that resonated with me and my own work and grasping on to my own identity as facing this harsh reality of assimilation. And assimilation can feel so violent and colonizing. And it feels like it’s a process to erase your identity and you your identity of your parents and your grandparents and these photos that, and the memories that she talked about with this poem, just, it resonated a lot with me and my own work and what I’m trying to grasps on to and trying to hold on to and preserve and reshape re0shape away from away from what work’s supposed to be which through assimilation. I really appreciated this poem and also what you all are saying about all forms of communication, including the arts. Yeah I can grasp on to things that that maybe other circles or other ways of knowing can’t, but I think that they work together and the intersect with each other and the communicate with each other what we are doing in academia at the universities. I think I learn a lot from, through just my own friends who are in those places and it is it inspires me to buy work, it actually gives me a language sometimes that what I’m actually doin because sometimes I don’t even know it, I’m just feeling it in my body and I don’t even know and why I’m doing what I’m doing until I you know, I hear conversations like these, or talk with people I know who are part of institutions and they have to frame it in the language that is understandable to the institution, right? But it also can feel language so I really appreciate that in this discussion based around [unknown words] work of each and every one of your work intersect with that world, art would be a creative part of that world.

Annie: Yeah, thank you. And thanks for a you know, I think it’s nice to kind of come back to the title of the event which is Silhouettes and so imaging what are those shadows that migration casts, you know, and that’s being cast in the poem, that’s in our lives in our memories. And I would love to use this as an opportunity since you were talking about your own sort of inspirations Ruby, if folks are okay, are we okay to move on to Ruby’s work? (various voices say “yeah”) Okay let’s move on to Ruby’s work. So, I need to just have a moment where I do something with the computer, sorry.

Ruby if you can, you’ve introduced yourself a little bit, but if you if you want to say anything more before start looking at your images, then just guide me and I will go back and forth between the images.

54:15 Ruby: Thank you for actually taking the time to look at the images. I appreciate everyone’s time and effort to share them with me. I kind of have a hard time describing which images, I have a lot, so I get kind of staggered from the time frame so we’ll work on it and we will look at, Annie actually sent two different batches, five and six. They stem from an earlier time frame, I think they are pretty chronological the way we kind of going to look at them and so they, you know they kind of hit on different time frames and experiences that were going on with me and in in connection to what was going on in the surrounding in community, yeah, depending on when I painted them so I guess that’s it. I guess we can look at them now if you would like. We have them in order right?

Annie: Yep, so I’m going to go ahead and there we go.

Ruby: Okay. So okay so this one is this part this is “self as undocumented.” So this piece I did in 2006 and I started out by, when I started out as an artist, I thought I was an immigrant. Until I graduated from college I have some really some really tragic event which happened to my family in which I had a nephew that was murdered and the papers wrote all this… This, this is my family. Other extended family would come over and say we should go, the media is going to say what they want and I didn’t really understand it until it actually happened. And so I was just about to graduate, I’m the first in my family to graduate from high school and the first to graduate from college so at that point I kind of made the decision that I had to use my arts for something. And so, I went to find out, first I wanted to find out where I came from, where in Mexico we came from. And then when I went to go speak with my grandfather. I asked him where we came from in Mexico and he said we didn’t. He pretty much told me that the border cross [unknown word] and so I learned a little bit about our history and about it impacted my family down there, how segregation impacted my father and my aunt and you know, all that stuff that we all know about I didn’t know that was my family’s history and then what I, what occurred to me is also I was a part Utah history that was erased from the history books because there were a lot a lot of amazing things that happened. And so when I painted this piece I, it was kind of during the time when you know, Arizona bill was passed. all those (pause).

Ruby: Okay, so and so you know it was really impactful for me because I felt like a lot of the people who were being discriminated against, to me, they are my family. You know, they were my community too, and the guy with the hat [unknown words] said “aha” [unknown words]. That same treatment, even though segregation is now against the law, the way my family was treated. We’re now creating laws for new, for a new demographic, which was the only thing that made us really different was the borders that we’re being placed to divide us. And so, I created this piece as a, kind of an internal way of the way I felt. The way I felt in connection to the way people were being harmed around me, with my own history of feeling what happens when you become, when you are, for me it was a play on the word itself undocumented. That my history was undocumented therefore because my history was undocumented, I didn’t find out until I was 27 years old that that I that I had history here longer than the Mormon pioneers. Although they had piles of stuff. I always felt like a second class citizen growing up in Utah. So because of that change, because I didn’t know, I, my family acted accordingly and so we were pushed out of schools and you know, I became the first to graduate and so that’s my personal connection to it. And it also reflects history, what was happening in the communities around me. And so I painted it in a way where I felt kind of like invisible. Or like felt like I was like the walking dead amongst the living. It was kind of the way we see it, I mean that’s kind of how I tried to reflect how it felt inside to be from an invisible community. Although, I recognize that I do have privileges that a lot of undocumented communities don’t have. This was kind of my expression of the pain that [unknown words] have on our communities so that’s it. (laughs) (long pause)

1:00:07 Ruby: Okay, so, also, this piece is actually a piece I did for MALCS. When it was in Utah. I was part of the organizing committee and these are all the women that were on that organizing committee also. And so my work also, my work reflects a lot of pain of what I see outside of me and inside of me. But it’s also it’s tools that I use to create a counter narrative to that pain and to injustices and so this this painting, or this drawing is actually designed for a painting. And that despite [unknown words] what you see in front of you, creating spaces of belonging and also what MALCs is all about. And so you have the women as a tree, pulling up pulling up the little world, creating a pathway toward the next generation.

Ruby: Next?

1:01:12 Ruby: (laughs) Okay so this one is a little bit more recent. This is, this is a public utilities office design here in Sacramento. And a lot of my pieces, when I use public art, I try to do a lot of stuff that reflects the surrounding communities. And each of these, each of these are different side. They are laid out flat as one but they are, they are each one side, there are four sides. And each of them face a different direction. One representing elders. One representing women. One children. And one men. And then you have a butterfly and so I titled this one “Immigration is Beautiful” with the butterfly coming in and out of their hands and their feet and the movement that they that they create and how they are linked by the butterfly. And so, so what I do stuff with public art I always try to do something that is [unknown words] (various voices murmur) When stuff with the public I try to do stuff that is very representative of them and but in a in a positive and beautiful way, if that makes sense. I don’t know how, I can’t, I don’t have the language for what I’m trying to say but…

Annie: That totally, that sounds great…

Ruby: To the next one?

Annie: Yeah

1:02:48 Ruby: Okay so these the very last two images that I’ve done for my latest series. And this one I am collaborating with the research of Dr Sonia Aleman and [unknown name] who have done a piece, which I should have written in front of me. It’s, well it’s research around a student paper called Venceremos and that went, that started I believe in 1993 and then went into hiatus for a little while. And then resurfaced in 2007. And there were all these editors from that point were Chicana women. And so they were the first Chicana women for that paper. And so their research centers around that and they found what, how that, how what move that paper [unknown word] was Aztec goddess Ītzpāpālōtl who is a jaguar butterfly. And, so I collaborated with them and their research. Flor is also a photographer so she did photoshoots with all these women and then I created pieces based on the articles that they wrote, this one is based on colorism. And so you see, you can see the different shades in her face. And also have a personal touch to the editor to her to this subject in the painting in that it is represented by the pink roses and the and the saint, which I forgot her name. I should have wrote, written it down. I have it written down somewhere, because I spoke with her. But her mom has cancer and so she prays to the saint and she also loves butterflies. So that’s kind of a personal touch to this to this person that I’ve painted. And also images that represent some part of the article so that she had she had written and also she’s an attorney so I thought it very important to include something that represents justice which was the statue of liberty. And so, and also in a kind of like, representation in each of the paintings I have representations of Ītzpāpālōtl and you see the butterfly and the jaguar incorporated into the and the crown kind of a representation and also on the left side of her those are also symbols of Ītzpāpālōtl. And some she is somebody who gives them, she gives them, she the force that gives you strength to keep doing [unknown word] in what we’re doing. And so that’s why that those symbols are in there as well. So it’s kind of a little in there. And then the next one is also part of the same series, this the model here is a this is this is a teacher and she was interested in writing and in social justice books so I have collaged a lot the titles of books right here. And also I wanted to put in, yeah, if you can look a little bit to your right. A Is For Activist is a is a children’s book. And then I have actually children. Activists [unknown name] teaches children. So it’s kind of kind of it’s kind of a representation of her and she didn’t do an article. She does poetry. So this one is more of a representation of just a person. And then I also have I have parts of each Ītzpāpālōtl that are kind of within in the painting also. So there’s that one.

1:07:02 Annie: Great. Did folks, Ruby provided us five more paintings, photos, pictures of her paintings. But maybe did anyone have questions? Maybe we can use this as an opportunity to ask questions or if you wanted to go back to an image?

Sarita: I actually would like to go back to that previous image..

Annie: Mm hmm, yeah. Okay so Sarita is interested in this one?

Sarita: Yes.

Annie: Great

Sarita: And Ruby you mentioned colorism, I was wondering if you could say a little more about that? So referring to the shades.

Ruby: She’s a light skinned, she’s a light skinned Latina, but she did an article on how people depending on how, depending on the color of your skin, on how when you move to different spaces, how you’re treated within your own community and within the white community and that experience. And so kind of that is what this is about. I represented it with the different shades within her face. I guess that’s as simple [unknown words] this is what, I have her article somewhere if you want to read it, I can send it later.

Sarita: Very cool. I mean those are, I mean I feel like those are, that’s a big conversation that in at least in the Latino community. I mean I feel like I only see it happening on Facebook blurbs. It’s nice to see that kind of visually represented in that art. And I’m just wondering, like, if that were to be you know published in an article, I was wondering if even that subtlety would be able to be captured like in a black and white article, right? Just thinking about, I don’t know, just as, even as metaphor on many different levels. I think that’s really, really beautiful.

1:08:54 Ruby: Thank you. And I can, this is, these two last paintings I think are a good example on how, how important it is to kind of go back to our ancestral knowledges [unknown word] communal and collaboration. And so I don’t, I couldn’t, I don’t think I could do, could have done any of these pieces without the photographs with Flor and also the knowledge that was behind the research and also the knowledge that was behind the articles that each and every one of the women shared and that I had read of theirs. So I had a lot of information before I start each of the pieces and I have to figure out how each and every one part. Not all of the information, but the most important parts of all that information should be reflected in each of these pieces and so a lot of times there is a lot and sometimes I have to simplify it, but then also even though even though right now it looks a little simplified, there’s a lot of layers that came to create this painting. If that makes sense.

Annie: Any other questions, I can’t see you so…

Ruby: [unknown words]

Annie: Oh no, it’s wonderful, thank you so much. Any other questions or comments?

1:10:32 Juan: I was going to say thank… The images, I love, we were just talking about [unknown words]. I love layers or the different layers of meaning that you have in your in your work, especially, the, one of the last images that we just saw, I loved the seeing the details. I’m seeing a lot of little pieces of it. Especially, the woman the portrait, and sort of like all of the tiny details it it’s amazing.

Ruby: Thank you. In my very first piece too, I have “Self as undocumented.” We didn’t, we didn’t go close to it, we didn’t stand close. I don’t know what’s wrong with me, but I’m really tongue twisted today. We will get it up close, but you have a lot of circular yeah circles. And I don’t know what it is with that. But sometimes, when you are in the process of creating, some of this stuff comes out intuitively. But there is something to do like for me this pattern starting coming out after I went to Mexico for the first time and I went to the different sites and would see a lot of the circular patterns. And for me it kind of feels like it kind of feels like the circle is kind of like a completion or like a whole, like a cycle, like a. It feels like a something a symbol that means something to the ancestors and to myself. It like transfers onto me, but I don’t have language around it. But it feels like it it’s a symbol that needs to be part of the painting. Like there are little cycles or completions. Or like I’m not going to get it right. But, something [unknown word]. It it’s like circles kind of called to me when I when I once I create some of the pieces, not all of them, but some of them. And I don’t really know why, I just kind of like listen to it and I just kind of add it in there.

1:13:15 Cindy: Okay Ruby.. I..

Other unknown voice: Sorry [unknown words]

Ruby: Go ahead Cindy, ask it

Cindy: I think it’s really [unknown words, someone else says “I didn’t even notice that”]

Ruby: This one in particular piece]. I don’t have it anymore, but it is it’s kind of yeah, this one is kind of big. I guess, I can’t remember. I should have I should have brought I should have put the the dimensions. I’ve done so many pieces that I don’t remember the dimensions. (laughs) I should remember more the current ones. The current one is 24 by 24. I yeah. Yeah those are those are to me those are probably medium sized, right. And so the other ones that have been documented are larger than this one. I think it’s 36 by 36. I’m not sure. I can’t remember. I’ll have to look.

Cindy: Thank you

1:14:20 Crystal: Well Ruby I’d just like to ask you well first of all thank you so much for sharing your work, I really loved hearing you talk about it. And I actually want to go back to the portrait the “self as undocumented” and I think short of your description of this circles, sort of the intuitive sort of your intuition to use circles was really interesting and I’m wondering if you could talk about, you know, you’re describing this piece, you’re also talking about your family’s history in relation to Utah’s history. These histories of erasures. So thinking a lot about this notion of documentation and sort of for you are there ways that this particular painting and sort of your other work, you know, what are the, how are the ways, what are the different ways that this painting thinks through this notion of documentation? Both through your family, through your own experience, and do you think that your paintings and your work, you know, are sort of alternative ways of documentation? Especially when you’re thinking about sort of these more formal histories that have been erased.

1:15:33 Ruby: I started this piece in particular, this piece in particular is more of a healing painting for me. And I think this pieces that follow, when I try to when I create a counter-narrative… What I learned is my identity was informed by somebody else’s story about me. And I saw how that happened in my family and how it forced them apart and how they didn’t make it through school systems. Because they believed that they were criminals, or that they believed that they were just you know they were, you know, they that they didn’t belong in higher education. I didn’t believe that I belonged in higher education. I didn’t even think that I could graduate high school because I didn’t see that in my life. Like I didn’t see anybody that looked like me who could graduate high school. And the only reason why I did graduate was because my younger sister dropped out after 8th grade and so my brother made me go to school like he sat me down and was like “you’re the last one”. And I was stopped at, I kept going, but I thought I wouldn’t graduate because I had a high school counselor that consistently told me and I found out later many students of color that we wouldn’t graduate school, what she told me “why are you graduating, I mean why are you why are you still here, you’re not graduate anyway”. And she would tell me that on a consistent basis and so I would every time she’d call me into her office I would find ways to block her voice out and because I didn’t want to disappoint my family. But when I saw my name on the on the list of seniors who were going to graduate, I thought they made a mistake and I didn’t want to tell my counselor because I really believed her, I thought I wasn’t graduating. I just kept going because my family counted on me. And so the only reason I went to college is because when I graduated high school I moved to live with my, one of my best friends who had the same counselor and she is also Latina and I found out years later that she told her the same thing. And I went I went and moved to Santa Barbara with her and was the first time I had a Chicano counselor. And I just remember I was terrified of counselors and I did not want to go to them and I just remember sitting down in his office and he was going to try to help me with my FAFSA application. And he called me and he did all that, I kept waiting for him to tell me I couldn’t do anything I couldn’t do it so why am I trying. I kept waiting for that to happen and then he called me in the middle of the semester and I thought, okay here it comes he is going to tell me. And he is like I checked up on you you’ve got two jobs and I was going to school full time and so I thought he was going to tell me that’s too much you are not going to be able to do it. And so he sat me down, he’s like “I’ve checked on your classes, you’re doing really well and I’m really proud of you.” And I remember just feeling just surprised. And then I thought I saw students of color on campus and that was the first time where I realized that images are really important. What I saw impacted me. On so many levels. That it really sent me on a path to actually get a degree. I mean so yes, I think that images are really important form in telling your story and making things and your making your story visible. I don’t necessarily do a lot of… I do, I do like to do kind of like a juxtaposition of social justice issues with like with the counter narrative to injustices. Because, you can’t just have the injustices. You have to have a vision for justice, you know? So that’s why I do a lot of my public art with images that are uplifting and about the community that they reflect.

Annie: Yeah that was so beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Go ahead. No? Okay. Thanks Ruby.

1:20:02 Dalida: I just wanted to share, oh…

Annie: Go ahead…

Dalida: Okay, yeah thanks so much Ruby, this is so wonderful to see this work. And each piece is so different too sort of so much to talk about and to think through. But one thing I was thinking about just looking at the self as undocumented piece is how the, it’s just like the labor of the circles. I mean I just look at this and I just think about so much work. You know, so muc hours, you know, that you’ve put in to you making these making the circles and then layering it and like just to get the light like that. I mean to just kind of like pull this shape together.

Ruby: [unknown words] (laughter)

Dalida: I’m sorry, I missed what you said.

Ruby: Oh I said do you know when you’re creating time doesn’t exist.

Dalida: Right. Yeah, yeah and I mean and I feel like that’s also that’s … yeah, that actually gets right to what I was thinking. Because it’s like, you know, the labor of creating the painting, it’s like that’s a total distinction or like a contrary statement to the idea of being documented. It’s just like, it’s like the document the un you know the idea of documentation seems so meaningless or just like trite. You know, in comparison to this like very elemental and beautiful labor of the image and also of existence. Of your existence like the statement your existence is so much bigger and so much more meaningful than the idea of being documented. So, yeah, it’s really powerful.

1:22:58 Ruby: (laughs) Well, I think what I hoped was people get something when they see my work is that they have sense of belonging. When they see my work and they look at it, they think, yes I belong here this image is almost what, is creating an environment that makes me feel like this is my space too. It’s creating space for me it creates space for myself. I already do that for myself. But, I wanted to create space for other people that in that feels that looks more like what love is. Creating space and probably other spaces, but I’m not, I don’t have the right experiences of other places. But redefining and reshaping space so people feel like they are a part of rather than feeling like they are living in the margins all the time, if that makes sense.

Cindy: I loved the piece self as undocumented. I was curious about the lines that go across the face. [unknown words], you know maybe… it’s a map.

Ruby: The way I was doing it was [unknown words]. However you interpret it, I think every interpretation is right, you know, because everybody comes with their own experiences. But the way I was doing it was the feeling of being invisible and dead like the walking dead, like dead. like and so it’s like a cracked skull or [unknown words] you know. That’s kind of what I was thinking at the time. But it’s not a map. We can reshape it into (laughs).

1:24:59 Cindy: I love the story you tell about your family has been here in Utah, you know, before it was Utah. You know our family has a similar history like we’ve been in Los Angeles since before LA was LA, you know. And I loved like I loved looking at like when you walk around Los Angeles in downtown LA you bump into all these little pieces of humble start. I think it was it’s called the Power of Place, and I’m trying to remember if it was, who wrote about, I cannot remember her name, but I felt like I felt like the public art has given me like this map of LA you know. I feel like when I see your work there is also similar kind of mapping of things and I totally appreciate that. Like I love the work of that. Like the image of the teacher with all the books behind her [unknown words]. And I loved that image too, you know, and thought well here is some mapping of someone who is working with little kids. You know in the background there’s the Malcomb X, right. there’s the and I was looking at some of the books [unknown words] and I just love that because here’s the here’s these little kids who you know save DACA you know like [unknown words]. Like it isn’t about this kind of, you practice, right, and so I feel like I’m watching your paintings turn into that. You know, it it’s kind of reflecting a [praxis. And your praxis is about like your family history you know our political era…

Ruby: Okay, can I comment on that? Okay so imagine, imagine walking to LA and none of those murals are there anymore. Imagine none of these books are there. Imagine a world where it’s all absent. How does that, how does that impact you? How did that impact you? That’s what I was trying, this is what I’m trying to do with my work because like I said, when I was growing up I didn’t see people like me graduating high school. I mean it seems so simple. I didn’t see people run for office. I mean there are people now, it’s changed a lot from when I was growing up. I didn’t see, I didn’t have any teachers of color or I only had one Chicano, the University of Utah had one Chicano studies class, so I had one person of color in college. But it has changed a lot now, but nothing [unknown words] they are all white you know just all every image that you see does not reflect you. Every story that you read about does not reflect you. Every teacher and every person in every professional skill does not reflect you. What does that tell you? So that’s why, this is kind of my resistance, my counter narrative to that. How do I carve a space for people who feel like they are who feel like the self as undocumented painting? And create some space to say you do belong here, this is your space, this is you know, our community. We do exist and we do belong. It’s about creating spaces of belonging for me.

Cindy: I love that.

1:28:36 Cindy: I guess I am really taken by public art. When I was in Mexico City, my partner and I were in Cuernavaca I go to see the big mural and I was thinking about the pedagogical kind of power of providing an alternative you know history. The only foundation you ever think of is this is in art or murals. And so it’s just I just feel a kind of very similar to your work like I would love like looking at these alternative things that when reading the literature you know teachers who are doing something much different then what the common course that [unknown word] and what other kinds of eventual kind of standards of what is kind of considered violence and what is so I’d like to buy [unknown words]. (laughs)

Ruby: Are we making a deal right here online? (laughs)

Annie: (laughs) Yeah I know, we will have it recorded. So I’m wondering Ruby, did you, sorry, Ruby, did you want to show the next five?

Ruby: It’s up to the group really, if they want to see them…

Annie: Did you want to keep looking at more of her works? She has five more images that she shared so I’d love to make sure we get to those. Yeah, so let’s get to the next one, yeah.

1:30:14 Ruby: Okay so I have the pieces also in chronological order, then this is this is an early 2003 painting and it is called “Self as Mestiza.” And again there’s circular patterns. And I’m trying to figure out why I guess I wonder the time frame was when I was trying to figure out my identity or who I was or I think from. And so, this is also an intuitive way, of kind of the circles the way they kind of mix a little bit is kind of represents that mixed heritage.

We can do the next one.

Okay, oh okay, so this is around the same time frame as “self as undocumented.” You can tell that I was really pissed. And so this is also [unknown words] anger. And what is happening was the world was being is being repeated kind of [unknown word]. You know, this racing thoughts, these things that happened to my family and what it did to my family over generations is now being repeated to a new group. And so, this is what this is what is felt, I was painting what it felt like to be in the US. And so this is what we have, this brown woman as the statue of liberty because she is supposed to represent all immigrants and all people and then but she’s [unknown words] by barbed wire and she’s she has all these wounds that are like they are like piercing her and she she’s crying and her and right in her throat her voice is being you know that’s kind of representing like her voice is being I don’t know the words.. being muted. And so it’s just that whole feeling of what it felt like for me and that’s just [unknown word] a lot of people. Okay next one.

Annie: It’s this middle one. It’s somos, we are. This middle one, it says somos we are.

Ruby: Oh, okay, can you see it, can you see it okay?

Annie: So so I’ll zoom in. So this one says somos we are and then just yeah I’ll zoom in.

Ruby: It, this is this is a this a year-old design and I collected this one because I knew it was about, this one is just a design. I didn’t do a mural. I was a finalist for the for the Metro in Boyle Heights and it went to a different artist. But this is all everything that is happening there and it is happening everywhere and it’s about gentrification and then. So you see the background the back drop you know the buildings in gray and black and white and [unknown words]. To people what matters in these neighborhoods is the people and the identity of the neighborhood. And the so you can see at the very bottom of the back it spells out somos. Can you go back a little bit? It spells somos. The other side spells out we are. So I wanted to focus on the past, present, and then the other side, this one does past and the middle is present and the last is the future. And the future is pretty much like organizing and you know the man signing a petition to better the neighborhood. And this is the present. Then you might have to go really big just kind of and then the woman here is kind of like holding the [unknown word] hope of the future. [unknown word] side is the represents a little bit the past as well, the history of Boyle Heights. And then you have the butterfly that represents immigration… And that’s kind of the design of that with it and I thought it was relevant to what were talking about today even though this one it is really not of the public not in the public space, I did create this design. And if you look closer too you have patterns you have patterns marked by triangular shapes. And I always think of like, native pottery and Native American pottery. When I do a lot of these little shapes that kind of like create an image, I think it’s those symbols that kind of reflect my identity. It’s very intuitive, it’s not exact, but it comes from that it it’s inspired by a lot of that symbols that I see on other art forms.

Yeah. You can go to the next one.

This one is a mural in an alternative school in Salt Lake City, Utah called [unknown name] and it’s called “Pursuit of dream(ers).” Well it’s it’s a play on students’ dreams and it’s a high school, young moms, well they have a day care for teen moms. Adult education, ESL, a mix of demographics for [unknown word] students and teachers. Each of the students and people in the the school are in the mural in one way, shape or form. They are students. There’s the students that are on the dreamcatcher, in the background those are students that I worked with on this mural. And I asked them what they wanted to be, like what what’s the stepping stone, how’s, what’s under the stepping stone, where do you see yourself? And so they told, one person looked from right to left, [unknown words] from the very far wanted to be a doctor, the one next to her she’s from Africa and she said she wants to be an African princess, a counselor, a judge, a boxer and a nurse. So I painted them on the dreamcatcher what they wanted to do after they graduated that school. And then everyone else, they are some way, shape or form part of the school. Okay, we can go to the next one. Oh, wait but, wait, before you before you do, I’m sorry. I talked about my sister that dropped out of school. She went to school until the eighth grade she went to the school, it was called it was called [unknown words] and she was pregnant with her daughter and they wanted, they remembered my brother and sister who had both went there. My brother is now deceased. But the principal wanted me to paint my sister. And if you scroll in, that’s my sister at the time she was going to the school with her pregnant with my niece.

Annie: Which one?

Ruby: Oh, the one, the pregnant one in the middle, kind of the middle.

Annie: This one?

Ruby: Oh no that’s that one is the last one, sorry. Yeah (laughs) this is part of that series that I talked about before the other in the other batch. And you can scroll in to see some of the images. This one speaks, her article for more where for more identity. And so I have images that represent where she’s from. And then also organizing like for ethnic studies. So, and this image is kind of pretty straight forward this one.

And there is another one.

So this last one I kind of feel like I chose this one because it kind of talks about migration on a global level and also the impacts of water. I actually did a few. The woman on the very far left I did an individual piece, this is the design for it. Let me just backtrack, this is a design for this and there are four different sides. And it’s about water it’s called Water is Life. I did this first image of the woman, like I created that after going to Standing Rock last year. And, so I created this image and I wanted to I always wanted to do a public art piece with it and then this opportunity came to design it. And so I decided to make this piece about water and using children in the piece. They are all people from Sacramento, except for the models for the pregnant woman with the glow on the left. That’s loosely me, because I didn’t want it to look like me, I used myself as a reference and I’m not pregnant, but yeah. So that’s this piece.

Annie: Great. So these are Ruby’s work. Thank you so much. We have about 10 minutes left and so if there’s any other comments or things that people want to look at, this is really powerful, or any questions or things you want to say? I’m going to, did anyone want to go back to anything in particular from this second set? Because otherwise I’m going to just show, I I would love to see each other again, if that’s okay, it would be nice to see each other. I’m going to turn the share screen off and then yeah. So that was really powerful and yeah it was just amazing. I don’t know, I’m a little emotional by seeing and hearing your stories and the poem and hearing your thoughts about the poem. I’m not sure if we want to, just in the last 10 minutes, just kind of leave anything in this space or share anything with each other before we all go. I don’t want to keep people longer and so yeah.

1:42:19 Jose If I could say something, I would. I was just kind of struck by your painting, Ruby, of the statue of liberty and it made me think that what you were talking about, you’d said something about all. And the statue of liberty is supposed to represent, you know, all people and this idea of justice for all and the, you know, that that sort of foundational discourse that constitute the nation state here. But, it struck me that that actually it doesn’t mean all, but it originally meant white landowning men. And it just brought up this tension in between in that’s kind of like packed into that discourse that all doesn’t mean all and that it brought up a very, kind of very unsettling to use that kind of a pun, right, an unsettling kind of idea that I think I’m going to carry forward that, how is it that we can like live day to day with some of these ideas that like we have justice for all when it actually doesn’t mean all, and how do we sit with that tension, and how do we get students to look at that tension, and how do we how does it become productive, and what are the kind of like really weird logics encompassed within that that again drive the day to day? So I just wanted to share that observation with you, thank you very much it was very, again unsettling in a very productive kind of way, reaction that I had to it, thank you.

Crystal: Yeah I really appreciate that comment actually, because I think that resonated with me as well. And I, you know, I think a lot about I teach intro to Asian Am intro course at Riverside that’s like 200 students and I will say that like 90% of students identify as being like Asian American or being refugees or immigrants. And we have this lecture early on where we talk about national mythologies, right, and one of them being sort of [unknown word] and sort of what is it mean to think about this whole notion of melting pot and sort of deconstructing that. And then, you know, later on in the course, I find it difficult, it’s a mythology that gets so deeply embodied in people’s experiences. There’s students talking about their parents experiences as immigrating, having nothing and then being able to sort of build a whole life to give their kids these opportunities, right, and no matter how many type of decrypting or critiquing or deconstructing that, it it’s an experience that’s so deeply embodied. So I think Ruby’s work and sort of thinking about the ways of making really use the creative form of different artists to sort of unpack that too, right? So I just want to say that I did really appreciate that comment [unknown words].

Annie: Great. Yeah. (long pause)

Juan: I felt really grateful both for your narrative of all the work that feel like that I that don’t get that sort of pairing of seeing the work and then hearing the narrative through the artist. But that’s something that really struck me was when you said actually this piece could be interpreted in whatever way, right, because it’s the viewer that interprets it. And I felt I felt that there was so much power in that, right, that I hadn’t that I, had I understood that before. But to have you as the artist tell us that, right, that gives us that sort of license that sort of. And then it’s just, it made me think about how impactful it can be, right, for someone to do that act of interpreting and how it can allow for not just reflection about the piece, but also personal reflection, right. And I think that’s what we are all doing right now, so thank you so much that was excellent.

Annie: Cindy? Dalida? Sarita?

Sarita: I just want to say that, you know this, I mean even the theme of impossible subjects, I think that you know Ruby’s work is just an example of possibility. And a possibility that, you know, stays with us as an art form, I mean, again I’m just thinking about the statue of liberty piece that, you know, hangs from one of our friends’ houses that we have here in Salt Lake or one image of it and it’s, you know, that’s here forever, like it’s interrupting this grand narrative, right, it’s part of the, you know, it it’s it interrupts the hegemony of the American dream, right, like you are a counter balance, you are a making new possibilities available for people, like my students always want to return to, and yet everything is okay. And I think Crystal, I heard you maybe kind of hint that some of your students want to return to what my parents were able to do it right, like there is this kind of force and I see within my life, you know students too, like this wanting to return to this kind of American dream narrative and I always tell my students, there’s this other, there are other dreams, why must we always return to this one this one story, right? I think that Ruby, again that that opening of the possibility, I think it’s something that I feel really grateful for and so thank you and I’m going to, that’s enough from me.

Cindy: I, I like that we just said that here’s a possibility of moving young people away from attaching themselves to that narrative of nation building and American dream, you know, that I feel like is what Ruby is offering here, is like these alternative, and I think I think it’s hard for young, I think it’s hard for people to get like, it’s so easy to say, thinking of that story of pulling yourself, doing some [unknown words] oh I forget how it goes, but you know like this bootstrap kind of mentality. And I think I think it’s so nice to see and hear stories behind these [unknown words]. So thank you Juan for bringing that up, but the but the health people find another alternative understanding of the experience in the US, that’s so important [unknown words]. Maybe that’s a possibility, like a pedagogical possibility that that you work off of. So thank you for that Ruby.

1:49:33 Ruby: Thank you. I I’d like to reflect that back onto everyone here and say that all your work and your students’ stories, your stories, I think stories also offer equally what the work that I do offers. I think we all have our own strengths and aspects and I think that we all all contribute to this change these ways of change that we are trying to create. And so, and also this format that you’re you’ve invited us all to discuss in Annie, I really appreciate it, so now we can get a better understanding of what we all do and we all all of our work reflects in subjects so, but we do our work in different ways and it’s all meaningful and important. So I want to thank you all also, so and it did take a lot of time too and that’s all I’m going to say (laughs)

Annie: That’s fine. Dalida?

Dalida: Yeah, well I just wanted to, yeah thank you again Ruby and Annie for organizing and for everyone to to be part of the discussion and maybe something I’m leaving with as as a question and it’s an ongoing question, but it is about how do we how do we create spaces of belonging, but that also are not spaces that are spaces of occupation in the sense of colonial occupation? And maybe it’s just, you know, it’s this tension between you when communities become exclusionary and so, you know, what does that mean? And I’m thinking about, you know, the public artwork that’s so important in terms of place making, but that which is also now becoming a tool of gentrification and, you know, it’s these really [unknown word] complicated questions, yeah. And maybe in other ways I think about it as just, you know, how do we create communities of belonging that are themselves acknowledging the realities of of displacements and, you know, the fact that we are in transit in a sense, you know? So yeah I’m just [unknown word] follow all of these really rich questions and I look forward to talking more with all of you and also learning more about the questions in pedagogy and how people are kind of addressing this moment, you know, in your classrooms, so thank you so much, really wonderful.

Annie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah thank you. And this is really wonderful. I feel like this was a pedagogical activity for us to participate in. We were, I was, I felt like I was learning a lot from all of you and I just I just want to, I’m going to close up now because I did promise we would end on time and so this is just to say that this event is part of what we’ve called Migratory Times with the Institute of Impossible Subjects and so you will all be invited back. You, there was no requirements, so I know you’re all busy, but we will invite you back when the website is live to annotate so I’ll have this conversation transcribed and then if you want to add layers of resources or make comments or add whatever it is that you want to add to give life to this conversation. We will create a silhouette of a conversation and so and so you’ll all be invited back for that, but know that we recognize you are busy and so it’s an invitation and I hope that we will continue to stay connected. I know I will stay connected with all of you, but I hope these new connections, we can we can you know foster it if folks are meeting each other for the first time and want to continue to stay connected, please do and if you, you all have each other’s emails and then I think I want to before we all go, because documentation is important, is I want to take a screenshot of us. And so look at your camera, don’t look down, just look at your camera and I will say “one, two, three” sweet so alright, are we good, okay. “One, two, three” oh no that didn’t work. “One, two” oh. Okay wait I think it’s because I have to do this, okay one more time. “One, two, three” yay. Okay, I’ll do one, just one more just in case. “One, two, three” alright okay well thank you everyone. Thank you Ruby for sharing.

(everyone says thank you and goodbye)

Alejandro Wolbert Pérez

Annie Isabel Fukushima

Antena Los Ángeles

Cindy Cruz

Clara Balaguer

@criticaldías

Crystal Baik

Dalida Maria Benfield

Damali Abrams

Flor Olivo

Jackline Kemigisa

Jennifer A. Reimer

Jorge Rojas

José Cortez

Juan Herrera

Kakyoung Lee

Kiri Dalena

Latipa

RESBAK

Romeo Jackson

Ruby Chacón

Utah Museum of Fine Arts

Women in Migration

Mobility & Temporality During Covid-19

IMG_5615.mov

Deloria God Is Red Intro Thinking in Time and Space

Welcome to Silhouettes – Spring 2020

Transcript: Migratory Times Salon with Pedro Pablo Gomez in English

Migratory Times Salon with Pedro Pablo Gómez / Tiempos Migratorios Salón con Pedro Pablo Gómez

Migratory Times Salon with Pedro Pablo Gómez

Tiempos Migratorios Salón con Pedro Pablo Gómez

Kiri Dalena

Kiri Lluch Dalena

In the Spirit of Itzpaplotl, Venceremos

“Barbed Wire Series”

Salon with the Institute of (Im)Possible Subjects – Silhouettes: Migration, (Un)Documented, and Pedagogies – Transcription

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